View Full Version : Heavy Weight, Light Weights, Juniors
I heard some people express some discontent about CIR allowing Juniors to compete in events such as the 200 Lap Endurance races. More than one have gone as far as to say that they will not come back to compete in these events because of they feel the Juniors are too light and too rough. Any brave souls willing to comment publicly about this? :hmm:
If not, there's the anonymous poll.
Adam Andrea
01-29-2007, 05:08 PM
I have no problem racing against the juniors. The greater the challenge the better.
Regarding them being too rough - On average, I don't think they are any more aggressive than the adult drivers.
Mark Hirt
01-29-2007, 05:16 PM
I feel the Juniors should be allowed to compete, that said maybe we need three weight classes. fly, light and heavy
Fly = all drivers under 120
Light = ALL team members between 120 and 185
Heavy = ALL team members over 185
note: A driver can choose to run in any "lighter" class if they so choose.
My problem (corrected last night) is that unless weight is added to the kart a 210 pound driver and 150 pound driver does not equal a heavyweight team.
As for the rough driving... Last night my kart when to understeer at the apex of a corner twice, the suspect then went by. Note to track staff I may miss an apex every now and then but rarely by 5 feet :hmm:
My problem (corrected last night) is that unless weight is added to the kart a 210 pound driver and 150 pound driver does not equal a heavyweight team.
Do you think there is a difference between a weight belt and weight on the kart? If Stefan adds 30lbs in the form of a weight belt, he's effectively around 160 (or is it 170)lbs.
Or are you saying that the average does not make the weight and that the drivers should be a minimum weight.
Mark Hirt
01-29-2007, 07:55 PM
I don't like the weight belt idea, is it even safe?
Fly = all drivers under 120
Light = ALL team members between 120 and 185
Heavy = ALL team members over 185
note: A driver can choose to run in any "lighter" class if they so choose.
I have run lightweight twice and finished 3rd both times
Teamed with
Palmieri on 9-25-2005 (ok I only did 58 laps)
Driver on 1-29-2006
If you want to be a Heavyweight.....
Gain Weight Now! Ask me How.
I don't like the weight belt idea...
What is it exactly that you dislike about the weight belt?
I voted "yes". But I'd like to add that I like Mark's idea regarding minimum weight for a given class with the exception that I feel the weight belt is a valid ballast that can be used if a driver so chooses.
D. Harrington
01-30-2007, 01:40 AM
I am a little biased because my son is a Jr. driver who races in the endurance races....I enjoy racing with the Jr. drivers...as far as them being rough....there are some that are a little more rough than others....just like the adult drivers. As far as the weight issue....I think that weight should be bolted to the kart. I don't think weight belts are safe and...who knows?... a driver might forget to put it on before he goes out for a stint.
I am a little biased because my son is a Jr. driver who races in the endurance races....I enjoy racing with the Jr. drivers...as far as them being rough....there are some that are a little more rough than others....just like the adult drivers.
I think most, if not all, of the CIR regulars like racing with the juniors. I think it's the general public that dislikes it. There was at least one guy talking to Peter and myself about it. He said that his some of his friends don't race anymore because of it. I do think that it is a contributing factor that drives away the "average guy". I think they are the ones who tend to see that there is a 100lb difference and think it's not fair. Where as we tend to look at it as a challenge that is welcomed (most of us anyhow). I have noticed a decline in participation by non-CIR-regular teams in the 200 Lap Endurance races.
who knows?... a driver might forget to put it on before he goes out for a stint.
I doubt anyone would be able to forget 20+ lbs of lead. Only those who would purposely cheat would forget it. And anyone who would do that could find other ways to add and remove weight before and after weigh in. The only two people to use the weight belts so far are Greg and myself. And I know I don't cheat. And I'm confident that Greg doesn't cheat either. A scale could be set up for weighing drivers as they exit the kart to ease the minds of those who care.
Martin, Dave, Greg and I all used the weight belt during the 24 Hour race where the speeds are much higher with no problems.
Timmahhh
01-30-2007, 12:06 PM
I could see that if a kid had a heavy belt on and hit something, that it could throw them around a little more.
Althought I am not to the point that weight makes a huge difference, I don't see any problem with any people participating in a given race, but I do think that if it is possible to add weight to the kart, that it would put more emphasis on the driver.
D. Harrington
01-30-2007, 10:40 PM
I still maintain that bolting the weight to the kart is safer. Maybe that's why the CIK and every major US karting series requires it to be attached to the kart.
CIR-Reed
01-31-2007, 09:42 PM
I am not entirely comfortable with the concept of the weight belt either. If at all possible we will be bolting weight on for endurance races. My fear with the weight belt is that you are adding weight to a breakable and valuable object. If the worst happens and you end up out of your kart flying through the air or impacting something with youre body that extra 20 pounds is adding force to the collision. I don't have a problem with people doing it voluntarily at CIR but I would never ask anyone to wear a weight belt.
As far as the juniors in the endurance races goes, I got spun 5 times during the 300 lapper that Jim and I did. 4 of them where adults and one of them was a junior driver who I got tangled up with while driving a funky line to try and set up the driver in front of me.
Martin Lenick
02-01-2007, 09:56 PM
I don't like the weight belt idea, is it even safe?
Gain Weight Now! Ask me How.
:lmao::lmao:
I'd be LESS inclined to run in the enduros if the Juniors weren't there. I enjoy racing with them.
I hope to grow up to be just like them.
peterjank
02-05-2007, 03:17 PM
If possible, I would like to see two enduro series at CIR. One would be adults only, while the other would be a "pro series" open to adults and experienced junior racers.
First and foremost, that would give me the opportunity to run more enduros.:)
Second, I think it would help CIR rebuild the enduro series to what it was like in 2004 and 2005, with many regular teams participating. The enduro fields have been dwindling and I think, unfortunately, that having junior teams in the field may be contributing to that. On at least three occassions in the last 6 months, I've heard drivers in the locker room after an enduro say they wouldn't be back because of the juniors. Some of it may have been sour grapes because the drivers didn't like being beaten by juniors. Some of it may have been because the drivers didn't like being bumped on the straight or an entrance to a turn.
If possible, I would like to see two enduro series at CIR. One would be adults only, while the other would be a "pro series" open to adults and experienced junior racers.
First and foremost, that would give me the opportunity to run more enduros.:)
Second, I think it would help CIR rebuild the enduro series to what it was like in 2004 and 2005, with many regular teams participating. The enduro fields have been dwindling and I think, unfortunately, that having junior teams in the field may be contributing to that. On at least three occassions in the last 6 months, I've heard drivers in the locker room after an enduro say they wouldn't be back because of the juniors. Some of it may have been sour grapes because the drivers didn't like being beaten by juniors. Some of it may have been because the drivers didn't like being bumped on the straight or an entrance to a turn.
Thank God you answered and backed up my story. I thought I was alone! "Fair" competition is key. Even though lighter drivers are inherently better competition, it is still not fair. I would like to see a league that is based on a minimum weight. This would allow great drivers who are heavier to compete on even grounds. This would also allow lighter drivers to prove their skill once and for all! Peter J, Ryan Starzyk , John O, Roberto, Dave H and Paul Russo deserve to compete on even grounds. They are outstanding drivers and they deserve to have a fair chance at winning. To deny them of that chance is selfish of the lighter drivers. I vote for a league that evens out the weight for all drivers. I also think that the employees should be allowed to kick our asses (at equal weight of course!)
Timmahhh
02-06-2007, 01:02 PM
It would have to be kind of frustrating to get beat by people who have an advantage (weight) that wasn't compensated for.
At least I just lose because of lack of skill :D
Once again, I heard people (both regulars and non-regulars) complain about the rough driving by some of the juniors. There were even other juniors complaining about it.
peterjank
02-26-2007, 12:24 PM
It is particularly frustrating right now becomes the problem could be solved quite easily by having the heavyweights drive the karts with the new chassis and leave the old karts to the light weights.
The karts with the new chassis are easily a half second faster than the old. That would seem to be a lot easier than strapping 100 pounds on the lightweight karts.
I still don't know why they let those little trolls out on the track with adults, especially as aggressive as they were. It just didn't look too safe for them.http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=619069&postcount=27
:rofl:
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