24 Hour 2 stroke kart race

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

I spoke with Les today and he is in favor of allowing us to rent the track for a 24 hour race. I am putting this feeler out to see who would be interested in racing and who would be willing to help organize it.

Maybe we could get Rolodex to be the main sponsor so we can name it the Rolodex 24 hours of Norway

[Rick]

What kind of karts? 2-strokes? :thumbsup:

[Martin Lenick]

Very cool, Phil!!!!!!!!!:yay: :yay::yay::yay:(I was trying to put a dozen of these smilies but the site limits me to a total of 4.)

CHMS's karts would allow more people, but also allow each of them (us, me) to blame things on the kart. Also, a much more expensive entry fee.

Our own karts would restrict the field to, at best, a handfull of karts per class, but I still think that would be great. The other problem is that 24 hours is a rebuild for some motors, or half-way to a rebuild at best. I'm still fine with that.

I suggest a pole of who would be interested, and whether they prefer CHMS karts or thier own.

You can preload the pole with my vote: individual classes in our own equipment. We could schedule the event for one of CHMS's "long breaks" between club events to allow for a rebuild.

[Rick]

It was your buddy Phil's idea... but I'll take the glory. :thumbsup: I'm very interested either way. Perhaps each driver on each team would drive his own kart. That way we could help save the motors.

I'll set up a poll in another thread (that's the only way to do it) and merge them.

[Rick]

Are you guys interested in competing in a 24 Hour Race at CHMS? Please cast your vote in the poll.

[Martin Lenick]

It was your buddy Phil's idea... but I'll take the glory. :thumbsup:

I recognized my mistake and edited it while you were posting this. Sorry, Rick, didn't mean to confuse you with Phil.

:rofl:Just kidding, Phil! :rofl:

[Martin Lenick]

Perhaps each driver on each team would drive his own kart. That way we could help save the motors.

I great idea for a gentlemen's race, but there are some who won't believe that we won fair-and-square and will, understandably, want a thorough post-tech. Repeatedly changing karts during the race only allows post-stint weigh-in, but not the the strip-to-the-crank inspection I'll demand if Phil wins.

:rofl:Just kidding, Phil. This is too easy!:rofl: Who's sober now???
:confused: Wait, that didn't make sense, did I just slam myself? Am I still typing out loud?

[Rick]

:hmm:Assuming the price is reasonable, I'm most likely in no matter what. :)

[Rick]

I great idea for a gentlemen's race, but there are some who won't believe that we won fair-and-square and will, understandably, want a thorough post-tech. Repeatedly changing karts during the race only allows post-stint weigh-in, but not the the strip-to-the-crank inspection I'll demand if Phil wins.

:rofl:Just kidding, Phil. This is too easy!:rofl: Who's sober now???
:confused: Wait, that didn't make sense, did I just slam myself? Am I still typing out loud?

I see your point regarding tech inspection and fair play. I came up with the idea because it opens it up to more types of karts. Not everyone has a TAG or a DD2. This way Shifters, TAG, and DD2 can all race together. I'm not sure how many hours a shifter can go. But the Rotax TAG and DD2s can go 50 hours.

[Martin Lenick]

Phil,

I understand Les is receptive, but before we get our hopes up too high, will the community let him do it? (noise?)

[Martin Lenick]

We'd need to pick tires that would last for 24 hours, or allow racer's choice of rubber. Racer's choice would, in my opinion, be more exciting: strategy, tactics and crew size would influence decisions (highest average yet depreciating lap speeds minus tire changes vs. consistantly slower lap times with fewer changes or none.)

Tires, rims and crew are more money; I'm okay with that, but it might restrict greater participation.

I've never had the Vintage Birel's motor rebuilt, but I think it's about $600. If so, that's not much, divided over a team.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Phil,

I understand Les is receptive, but before we get our hopes up too high, will the community let him do it? (noise?)

I'm glad to see the positive response. I would so love to do this in a shifter but that might be suicide. I most definitely would prefer to run a DD2 over a rental kart but if we're all in similar equipment, it will still be a blast.

I suggested to Les that we tie it in with a charity to soften up the locals. If we do this right, we could have a horse and pony show during the day, a band during the night etc to attract spectators. He didn't think it would be a problem getting this to fly since it would be a one of event and especially if we got a local charity on board.

As Rick mentioned, if we use our own karts, we could allow up to 4 maybe 6 karts per team which would reduce the wear and tear on each kart. It doesn't have to be all serious and become a tech nightmare. I think it would be great just to have the experience of racing around the clock twice.

[Rick]

Is this a kodak moment? We should all hug now. :)

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

I see your point regarding tech inspection and fair play. I came up with the idea because it opens it up to more types of karts. Not everyone has a TAG or a DD2. This way Shifters, TAG, and DD2 can all race together. I'm not sure how many hours a shifter can go. But the Rotax TAG and DD2s can go 50 hours.

Rick....a stock cr125 should run 24 hours without any problems.

Maybe it should be open to all 125cc motors...4 classes: shifter light and heavy (DD2 would be classed as a shifter) and non-shifter light and heavy (all TAG's?). If it's just for fun, leave the rules broad and non-restrictive. In a 24 hour race, the tortoise could beat the hare :) so why try to even things out perfectly.

[Martin Lenick]

The advise, opinions and help of Les will be invaluable in determining what his clientele (still more extensive than the burgeoning grid of karters on ChicagoRacers) will prefer. A multi-class race may be advantageous:

Animals and other four-strokers aren't big at CHMS, but might be interested.
Yamahas and HPV's will hold up fine.
TaG's and DD2 can be rebuilt after the race (maybe we can get a rebuilder to sponsor!!! In addition to "Rolodex", which cracked me up.)
Shifters would be expensive, but only the folks of the shifter world know if it would be worth the outlay.

[Martin Lenick]

This thread is progressing faster than I can type. But I refuse to use old technology and pick up the phone.

Phil has already covered my concerns about the community. Elliot will provide the band (that's unconfirmed, but a wishful thought... "unconfirmed" might be an understatement) why not 4-strokes, too?

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

We'd need to pick tires that would last for 24 hours, or allow racer's choice of rubber. Racer's choice would, in my opinion, be more exciting: strategy, tactics and crew size would influence decisions (highest average yet depreciating lap speeds minus tire changes vs. consistantly slower lap times with fewer changes or none.)

Tires, rims and crew are more money; I'm okay with that, but it might restrict greater participation.

I've never had the Vintage Birel's motor rebuilt, but I think it's about $600. If so, that's not much, divided over a team.

I would vote for spec tires but a tire that would last 24 hours would be too hard especially during the night when the track cools off. We could use the Granja 500 tires, MG Reds. They last a long time and still have pretty good grip for the high hp karts. Maybe we should limit the number of sets? That would be interesting. :hmm: I could probably get MG to do some type of partial sponsorship and help us out with tires and prizes.

It would be nice if we could get a few kart shops to get on board and donate free rebuilds or at least free labor on the rebuilds to the winners of each class. If it's bringing attention to a charity, they should be able to write off the expense as a charitable donation.

[Rick]

Who's going to provide the pit girls? :hmm:

[Martin Lenick]

why not 4-strokes, too?
Why not any class, if it's a gentlemen's race?
If some procedes go to a sensible charity, I'd race even if I were the only entry in my class.

Chartiy idea: The SMSB Fund (Send Martin to Skip Barber)
Seriously, it's obvious the community picks the charity.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

This thread is progressing faster than I can type. But I refuse to use old technology and pick up the phone.

Phil has already covered my concerns about the community. Elliot will provide the band (that's unconfirmed, but a wishful thought... "unconfirmed" might be an understatement) why not 4-strokes, too?

ditto...I need sleep...been up since 3:30am so this is the last post for the night. Regarding the 4 cycle, don't you the think the big difference in speed may present an issue when drivers are getting tired and their senses aren't as sharp? I would vote no to 4 cycles but I'll go with the majority vote. Now that I think about it, the moving chicane would make for some fun passing and excitement for the spectators.

[Rick]

I think it should be a real race that warrants real competition. We need to figure out how to classify and tech multiple karts teams. But then it might turn into autocross... and the rules will become overwhelming.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Who's going to provide the pit girls? :hmm:

OK this is definitely my last post :)

Rick...great point, we will need pit girls BUT PLEASE...none that look like Martin in a cocktail waitress dress :bugeye:

[Martin Lenick]

I'd like to see it be a big karting event, rivaling the "24 Hours of America". On the opposite end of the spetrum, I want to run it even if there's only two of us.

However, "two of us" does nothing for the track or local community. A big ol' all-inclusive event (with Elliot playing the National Anthem on an upside-down-strung Fender Stratocaster) could bring the finacial support to catalyze this dream into the first annual of a perennial destination.

[Martin Lenick]

What was the annual karting street-race the died this year? Naperville? Whatever city, who were its sponsors and can we get them? If it was Naperville, it's not that far away if a broader "local" charity is necessary.

[Rick]

I'd like to see it be a big karting event, rivaling the "24 Hours of America". On the opposite end of the spetrum, I want to run it even if there's only two of us.

However, "two of us" does nothing for the track or local community. A big ol' all-inclusive event (with Elliot playing the National Anthem on an upside-down-strung Fender Stratocaster) could bring the finacial support to catalyze this dream into the first annual of a perennial destination.

I think the only way the event will be a large one is if it is classed evenly and fairly. So given that, I think mixing classes of karts for one team is bad. I think we might have to go with 1 kart per team to keep the costs down for everyone. Otherwise, there could be teams that show up with 10 karts.

[Martin Lenick]

I think the only way the event will be a large one is if it is classed evenly and fairly. So given that, I think mixing classes of karts for one team is bad. I think we might have to go with 1 kart per team to keep the costs down for everyone. Otherwise, there could be teams that show up with 10 karts.

I agree, but still think that multiple classes, beyond TaG's, DD2's and Shifters, wouldn't be a problem. In fact, passing the really slow back-markers in the 24 Hours of America was one of the things the kept me awake during the late-night stints! The HPV's are almost as fast as the TaG's. The Yamaha's are just a bit behind them. There probably wouldn't be many Animals.

[Rick]

If all else fails, we could just "adjust" our position to 1st after the race is over. :thumbsup:

[D. Harrington]

24 hour race in a TAG or shifter? You definitely would have to change tires a couple times. Phil....didn't you guys stick your motor a couple times when you were running for the World Record down in Arizona?

[Rick]

Dave: Why wouldn't you want to race?! :confused:

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

24 hour race in a TAG or shifter? You definitely would have to change tires a couple times. Phil....didn't you guys stick your motor a couple times when you were running for the World Record down in Arizona?

Absolutely, we would need around 4 to 6 sets. I didn't mean to make it sound like one set of tires would last. The quick change in the desert air during the night wreaked havoc on jetting and created the motor problems. The temp dropped from like 90degs in the day to, I believe, 20degs that night. We wouldn't have that problem at Norway.

Rick...why would it matter how many karts each team had? Should we limit the number of karts per team?

How about adding a mixed class to the lineup....any team entering this class must have at least one kart from each category, shifter, non-shifter (125cc) 100cc and 4 cycle.

Martin..I am with you on this one....it would be great to make this a huge annual event but I would still run it if it was just a few of us out there.

[Rick]

Rick...why would it matter how many karts each team had? Should we limit the number of karts per team?

I made that statement with the assumption that we want to meet the following three objectives:

1. We want this to be a large event that will attract a lot of people.
2. We want it to be a serious competition, not just a "fun" race where the results don't really reflect the skill of the teams. That means making it fair and even.
3. Make the entry cost reasonable.

I think that limiting the number of karts per team will keep it a competition of skill and not money. For example, Team A has really good drivers but can only afford to bring 1 kart to the race. On the other hand, Team B has average drivers but they can afford to bring 24 karts to the race. I think it's clear that Team B has a decisive advantage. Also, by making it one kart, we reduce the sheer logistics needed to tech each kart + driver combination. Think of how much of a nightmare it's going to be to tech 10 teams of 5 karts and 8 drivers. That's not even accounting for the extra cost.

The mixed kart team is not a good idea in my opinion. Who's really going to get 5 drivers in 5 different karts and pack them into a trailer and drive across the midwest to race in this thing? Would we do it? I don't think I would unless I was specifically invited to by you guys. It just makes it more complicated.

I say make it simple. My personal opinion is that the following rules would be good to achieve the objectives listed above:

1. 2 classes DD2 and TAG (these classes are common and they have engines that should easily last 24 hours). Limiting the classes will increase the entries into each class. Instead of 2 entries in 5 classes, we could have 5 entries in 2 classes. It might even be good to narrow it down to 1 class of kart.
2. The tech rules are taken directly from the sanctioning bodies of DD2 and TAG.
3. One team may enter in one class.
4. If stuff breaks, fix it while the clock is running.
5. No limit on tire changes. (It's actually works against you to change them too often).
6. Everyone is on the same tires/compound.
7. Each team can use as many sets of wheels as they want (as long as they pass tech).
8. Maybe allow one backup engine or kart per team.

We would have to figure out a weighting system that is fair and adheres to the safety rules of the track. It also must be easy to tech within 30 seconds.

[Mark Hirt]

Here are my thoughts on the event

Open it up to every class that runs at CHMS, one kart per team, spec tires after that anything goes.

Like any good 24 hour endurance race multiple classes adds toe the excitement. The Rolex would be prety boring if it was only for DP cars.

Remember it's an endurance race, drive accordingly


1. 2 classes DD2 and TAG (these classes are common and they have engines that should easily last 24 hours). Limiting the classes will increase the entries into each class. Instead of 2 entries in 5 classes, we could have 5 entries in 2 classes. It might even be good to narrow it down to 1 class of kart.
2. The tech rules are taken directly from the sanctioning bodies of DD2 and TAG.
3. One team may enter in one class.
4. If stuff breaks, fix it while the clock is running.
5. No limit on tire changes. (It's actually works against you to change them too often).
6. Everyone is on the same tires/compound.
7. Each team can use as many sets of wheels as they want (as long as they pass tech).
8. Maybe allow one backup engine or kart per team.


1-3. See My first thought
4. It's a 24 hour endurance race, if you break do you expect the others to "wait up". IMSA does not stop the race if an Audi breaks.
7. only 4 wheels on any kart, at anytime

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Here are my thoughts on the event

Open it up to every class that runs at CHMS, one kart per team, spec tires after that anything goes.

Like any good 24 hour endurance race multiple classes adds toe the excitement. The Rolex would be prety boring if it was only for DP cars.

Remember it's an endurance race, drive accordingly



1-3. See My first thought
4. It's a 24 hour endurance race, if you break do you expect the others to "wait up". IMSA does not stop the race if an Audi breaks.
7. only 4 wheels on any kart, at anytime

That was kinda my original idea. I guess I can see both sides though. On one hand it would be awesome to have everyone run spec equipment and may the best drivers win but I've always liked the Rolex 24 format and I totally agree with Mark, GT cars mixed in with the DP cars make the racing a lot more exciting. My vote is for multiple classes.

One of the reasons I like endurance racing is, the team aspect, especially for the Father/Mom and son/daughter teams that never get a chance to compete together. There is a big difference in the size of the drivers in some of those situations. By having their own kart, it allows them to team up and it would also put less stress on the karts. Maybe after we get it off the ground we could do another one with more 'rigid' rules, but like Mark stressed, it's a 24 hour race, anything can happen and quite often the fastest kart doesn't win. It would be hilarious if a 4 cycle kart won overall....talk about bragging rights. My vote would be for multiple karts per team with maybe a limit of 3 or 4/team. Even if we allowed 2 karts, a large and small set up, that would help.