A048s in the rain? Opinions? Advice?

[Rick]

Any of you guys ever run A048s in the rain? Reed says they are good in wet conditions without standing water. I'm trying to decide between A048s and AVS ES100s for tommorow. The forecast says it will be about 60 degrees + scattered thunderstorms.

[Mark Hirt]

I would agree with Reed. I would bring both sets and decide just before I went out.

[Rick]

I have no trailer. Nor do I have a support crew. And 4 tires and wheels don't fit in my car. I'm going with the A048s. If you don't hear back from me, that means I crashed.

[Rick]

Bad news: It rained.

Good news: I didn't crash!

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Bad news: It rained.

Good news: I didn't crash!

Rick

How was the car in the rain?

[Rick]

It was awesome in the rain! The Audi's could obviously push harder due to their AWD but I still passed everyone in the intermediate group. I could still brake much MUCH later than everyone else and also go in a little faster than they could. They could get on the power much earlier than I could though. The car is very responsive to all driver inputs (especially the bad inputs).

My instructors said I'm getting "signed off" today so that I can move up to the advanced group and go solo. My karting experience has really helped me to be a better driver in my car. The only thing that I didn't learn through karting was how to heel-toe.

[CIR-Reed]

The other nice thing about the A048's is that they are quite forgiving ini the dry. You can get VERY sideways and still recover.

[Rick]

But they don't smell like lavender...

:thumbsdown:

[Rick]

Well I got to drive the A048s in both wet/cold, rain/cold, and dry/sunny conditions. In the dry, they are very user friendly. I'm not sure why people say that those tires break away too fast to catch. I liked how gradual they break away and how you can reel them back in. They did get a bit greasy in today in the sunny dry track. But it was nothing really bad.

In the wet, I was not as confident with them. But maybe that's just my lack of experience of driving in the rain. :grinyes: Overall a good tire, but I think I'm going to try slicks.

[Mark Hirt]

but I think I'm going to try slicks.

Hoosier and Kumho DOT R compound tires are NOT slicks, slicks have no tread

[Rick]

Thanks for the correct terminology Mark! If I'm not mistaken, I already have R Compound tires. I did mean slicks as in no-tread slicks. I saw some EVOs, 944s and E46 M3s with tires that had absolutely no tread. Those were usually fastest cornering cars. I hope they aren't too expensive and they make them in my sizes. I also hope they smell like lavender!

[Mark Hirt]

The Hoosier R6 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hoosier&tireModel=R6) (an A6 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hoosier&tireModel=A6) might last a day) comes in many sizes, they are not cheap.

Also you really need a way to get them to your events as driving them on the street is NOT a wise choice

[CIR-Reed]

We used to drive our corvette to road america and back on hoosier R6's. We put about 3000 street/track/drag race miles on them and they still have some tread left. They are very good tires.

[Mark Hirt]

We used to drive our corvette to road america and back on hoosier R6's. We put about 3000 street/track/drag race miles on them and they still have some tread left. They are very good tires.

The R6 came out in 2006

2001-2003: R3S03 (great tire)
2004: R3S04 (a little more grip the the 03 AND better life)
2005: R3S05 (#*&^% tire, more grip BUT maybe 30 good runs ^&%$ )
2006-2007: R6

The R6 (well the A6) is the best Hoosier I've ever run but I feel street driving will cycle them out. With R-Compound tires you can have lots of tread left but no grip left.

[Rick]

Aren't the A6 tires specifically for autocrossing? Hoosier says they are designed for "lower operating tempratures". What temprature do you have to reach to consider it a "heat cycle"? Is it the operating temprature or is it just any change in the temprature?

[Mark Hirt]

WARNING (https://www.hoosiertire.com/warnpop.htm)


Also While Hoosiers DO have steel belts they are not very thick tires, one good sharp rock and sssssssssssssssssssss

Anyway... Yes the A6 is an Autocross tire, they will last one maybe two SCCA National road races (not weekends, races) There may still be tread but the tire will be cooked. That said Hoosier shod cars at races like the Runoff's and Sprints are on the A compound

Back to the R6.... The optimum temp is 180 to 200 but rubber compounds can be effected anytime the tire goes from ambient to even warm and back to ambient again. That said I'm pretty sure an cycled out R6 will be faster than good A048. Hoosiers are real expensive "street tires"

Back when Hoosier came out with the Radial Wet (what water) I asked my favorite tire engineer what would happen if I drove them to Kansas. He said we can have another set waiting for you in Des Moines :)

Hoosier Tire Care Tips (https://www.hoosiertire.com/Tctips.htm)

note: Heat cycling applies to any brand tire. In say NASCAR when they say's he's on scuffs they really mean tires with one heat cycle on them.

I really hate to say this but if you want an R-Compound tire you car drive on the street you want the Kumho Victoracer V700 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=VictoRacer+V700)

[Mark Hirt]

I'll add this.... A few years ago on a Saturday night in Milwaukee I drove from Miller Park 10 miles to my Hotel on Hoosiers. At "maybe" 30mph on I-94 it was a scary ride, the car would start to change lanes all by itself.

note: the only reason I did this really stupid thing was it was pouring rain and I didn't feel like getting soaked changing back to my street tires.

[Rick]

I've been reading that some Spec Racer Ford racers are upset about the A048s as the series tire. They say they are too expensive to run because they heat cycle out in 4 sessions.

:confused: If this is true, then my tires should be heat cycled out. That would suck. How would I know if they are heat cycled out? Is there some standard test? Or do the tires just turn to crap and lose all grip? In the last session, the tires still felt like they had good grip.

Question: So if I go out for a 20 minute session, come back in and sit around for 40 minutes and then go back out for another 20 minute session. Is that 2 heat cycles?

[CIR-Reed]

The Spec Racer Ford guys aren't concerned anymore because the class switched to goodyears. So the complaint thread about AO48's is old. The story with the 48's was that they would be unreal for the first session and then as soon as they cooled off and you heated them up again they where never the same. They also then began to go drastically down hill after about 12 cycles. It got to the point where we ran brand new tires for EVERY session at national races or we weren't competitive.

I switched from a 15 cycle set to a brand new set between the first qualifying and second one day and went over a second faster at blackhawk.

[Rick]

What is considered a "session"? Does spirited driving to the track count as one session?