Last race of official racing season at CHMS

[Rick]

Peter and I were out there trying out our new DD2 karts. Peter bought a used RM1 and I bought a used CRG DD2. There were a lot of familiar faces out there. Martin, Gordon, Matthew Bigos, and Greg were all out there. Peter basically spent the whole day adjusting his new kart. At first, his adjustments resulted in really bad handling. So bad, that he just basically went off the track. He finally got it all sorted out at the end and was happy with how the kart was handling.

I'm not the kind of guy that likes to spend a lot of time adjusting the kart. This is probably because I simply don't know how! :dunno: :blink: :D I just made some minor adjustments recommended to me by Timmy Megenbier's dad. Basially I just increased the rear track width to 55inches, which I'm told is the magic number but no one really knows why. And I increased the front track as well. Other than than, I just tried to lean out the carb by moving the needle down a couple of notches. I was still running rich but I couldn't do anything because no one had the right jet for me to buy or borrow.

Phil Gordon was there and so were some other RM1/DD2 guys. One of the RM1 guys was just practicing. So that made 4 DD2s in practice and 3 in the race. Phil and all the other RM1 guys were extremely helpful and I felt a real sense of comradery with the DD2/RM1 guys. Guys I met for the first time were teaching me how to pull a carb out and adjust the needle. It was definitely better than trying to figure it all out by myself!

Last time I was at Norway in an RM1, I could not keep up with the TAG guys. This time, I was blowing by all of them except for the guy in the vintage Birel. From this experience and the final results of the Rotax Grand Nationals, I am convinced that DD2s are faster than TAGs (atleast the ROTAX FR 125s). Phil was simply flying by everyone like they were standing still. He was making crazy dive bomb passes in hairpin after the monza. :screwy: And then he got stuck behind Timmy Megenbier... which was kind of strange since he was clearly 2 seconds faster. Timmy must have been driving extremely defensive. :unsure:

Martin had no competition in TAG :surrender: , except for Timmy. He was beating both Peter and I by at least 1 sec. Martin was running 47s and I was running 48s. Phil was running 46s. Great driving Martin!

Well, I hope to get in some more testing before the good weather runs out. So I hope to see you guys at the track again!

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Rick....crazy dive bomb passes in the hairpin? What are you talking about??? :dunno: :yes:

Well there were only 3 RM1/DD2's at Norway on Saturday but it's something to build on. I believe some short rear hubs, mag wheels and seat struts on Peter's kart will get him running up front. Martin was definitely in a zone. I wish he hadn't slowed down to let me by in the feature. It was a challenge trying to get by him. Wonder if he would've let me by if he was driving an RM1/DD2? Better question is, wonder if I could've caught him.....hmmm

[rct25]

crazy dive bomb passes in the hairpin?

This is probably more accurate ;)

http://www.karting1.co.uk/braking-karting.htm

There is no other way to pass after the Monza than a good breaking technique before the hairpin.


Roberto :4:

[Rick]

That sounds right. :nodder: But if the guy in front of us turned in any sooner, Phil and him would have definitely hit the barrier. It was easily a 20-30 mph differential in speed. :blink: The move wasn't crazy because it was beyond the limitations of Phil's skill nor his kart's handling. It was crazy because he completely trusted that the guy holding us up was not going to shut the door or do something stupid. It just seemed like a lot to risk for 1 pass.

[rct25]

If you want to make overtaking easy you need to remove the fear factor as much as possible. When you are worried about spinning or crashing, all your concentration is taken up trying to avoid crashing, and you have none left over to drive a Kart fast and make overtaking manoeuvres.


http://www.karting1.co.uk/overtaking-karting.htm


Roberto :4:

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[The move wasn't crazy because it was beyond the limitations of Phil's skill nor his kart's handling. It was crazy because he completely trusted that the guy holding us up was not going to shut the door or do something stupid. It just seemed like a lot to risk for 1 pass.]

Rick

Trust had nothing to do with it. I have never raced with those before and there are very few drivers I can trust in racing.

I knew which line you guys were going to take from the lap before and I set up that pass from the exit of the monza. I got a good run off the exit and when you guys moved left to set up for the hair pin, I started the pass by going straight for the apex. Even if the guy in front of decided to turn in early, he would have to come across the full width of the track to make contact with me, which would give me enough time to adjust my line and go over the curbing. The move may have looked even more dramatic than it was simply because you weren't expecting it but from my perspective, it was well calculated. Most people do not expect to be passed there and that is why it makes a great place to pass.

One more thing, if the move was "...beyond the limitations of Phil's skill nor his kart's handling." I wouldn't have made the move stick....I would've ended up in the grass....I know because that's happened before too :yes:

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[It just seemed like a lot to risk for 1 pass.]

Correction Rick...it was 2 passes...I got both you guys :yea: sorry i couldn't resist :yes:

[Rick]

Originally posted by rct25@Oct 2 2006, 01:55 PM
If you want to make overtaking easy you need to remove the fear factor as much as possible. When you are worried about spinning or crashing, all your concentration is taken up trying to avoid crashing, and you have none left over to drive a Kart fast and make overtaking manoeuvres.


:surrender:

[Rick]

Originally posted by CoolBreezeRacer@Oct 2 2006, 05:28 PM
[It just seemed like a lot to risk for 1 pass.]

Correction Rick...it was 2 passes...I got both you guys* :yea:* sorry i couldn't resist* :yes:
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:bowdown:

How come you didn't dive bomb Timmy?! He was running 48's that race. Or was he shutting the door on you? :blink:

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[How come you didn't dive bomb Timmy?!]

I was following team orders, I had to wait until the last lap and I passed him in the same spot with the same move :D but I wouldn't call either one of those passes 'dive bombing'. To me a 'dive bomb' is making a really late move that results in contact before the pass is completed, or would've resulted in contact if the driver being passed didn't get out the way. On both of the passes I made, neither one happened.

The pass that I thought you would think was a little out of control was the slide pass going into turn one when Martin spun. That was a little risky.

[Martin Lenick]

Originally posted by CoolBreezeRacer@Oct 2 2006, 08:05 PM
[How come you didn't dive bomb Timmy?!]

I was following team orders2094


Team orders? It was two separate classes, not competing against each other. Are you saying that Timmy's "team" ordered you not to pass him (even though you easily did so in the qualifiers)?

And it was then team orders that allowed you to pass in the last half lap?

Can you explain the tactics or strategy in team orders that allow one class to interfere with another?

I was more excited to be racing with Timmy Megenbier than I was a week ago at CIR with A.J. Allmendinger. Too bad Timmy's "team" didn't let us race.

[rct25]

How come you didn't dive bomb Timmy?!

I do not think it is that easy when you have the number one junior driver in the country in front of you.
Also, Timmy probably was breaking late before the hairpin, so is not as easy as with other drivers that break earlier.

Roberto :4:

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Martin

I was just kidding about the team orders. Timmy and I are great friends and we race each other hard but in all the years we've been racing, we've never touched other than when we bump draft. I would never attempt a pass on him unless I was absolutely sure I could complete it safely and vs. Big Tim will tell you, when we race, he's never worried about us taking each out no matter how close we get or who's in front or behind. My tires were shot so I wasn't getting the run off the turns and that's why I backed off you when I looked down the inside on turn 4. If you had'nt pointed me by, I may have been stuck behind you instead. I didn't intend to interfere with your race and I don't know how close you were to us, but if you had enough to get by Timmy you should've been able to at least get by me since I was behind him. As Roberto pointed out, Timmy is one of the best drivers in the country and one of the few drivers that I know of that can out brake an RM1 with his rear brake only kart.

[Martin Lenick]

I'll wait until I'm sober to respond to this lunacy.
In the mean time, retract as you see fit.

[Rick]

:blink: subscribed, carry on...

http://www.euroteknik.com/forum/images/smilies/drama.gif

:hide:

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[I'll wait until I'm sober to respond to this lunacy.
In the mean time, retract as you see fit.]

That's my story and I'm sticking with it :angry: :yes:

[Rick]

Originally posted by rct25@Oct 3 2006, 04:09 PM
How come you didn't dive bomb Timmy?!

I do not think it is that easy when you have the number one junior driver in the country in front of you.
Also, Timmy probably was breaking late before the hairpin, so is not as easy as with other drivers that break earlier.

Roberto* :4:
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I just thought that being 2 seconds faster would help. :4:

[rct25]

I just thought that being 2 seconds faster would help.


Rick,
Phil was probably 2 seconds faster, but in what part of the track was he faster?
I know that Timmy can brake late and that was probably the difference.

Roberto :4:

[Martin Lenick]

Timmy’s team made the transition that day from a junior setup to a senior setup as well as attempting to trim the chassis for that track. The kart as a whole was behaving poorly at best.

He is much faster than his equipment allowed him to be that day. That is the only reason I was able to pass him and pull away in the first qualifier, and turn faster laps and close the gap after spinning in the second.

In the feature Timmy passed me in turn 3 of the first lap; a great move, both of us on very cold tires. I stayed on his tail for about the next 4 laps. I had faster equipment; he is a far superior racer. He was not blocking. I don’t know if I would have been able to pass him. I do know that those circumstances will not happen again. It was a pleasure having a close-up view of that kind of talent. Then something got in the way.

For the next 8 laps there was a DD2 wedged in between us. A DD2 that had been turning laps 2 seconds faster than us all day. A DD2 that easily passed us at will in the qualifiers. A DD2 that would enter corners fast and hard, but would exit mysteriously slow. A DD2 that would jump forward like a shifter each time I showed my nose along its side. A DD2 that I pointed by, knowing that if I had been driving it I would have passed Timmy’s poorly performing equipment in a heartbeat.

“I was following team orders, I had to wait until the last lap and I passed him in the same spot with the same move” (a move that tests the limits of adhesion)
“My tires were shot” (apparently not)
“I don't know how close you were to us” (did you think that was some other kart’s nose?)

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[It was a pleasure having a close-up view of that kind of talent.]

yea right ... you didn't want to watch T go around the track, you just wanted to beat him so you could brag about it on Track 4 ..... sorry I 'got in the way' :diablotin:

[Rick]

Originally posted by rct25@Oct 4 2006, 09:05 AM
I just thought that being 2 seconds faster would help.
Rick,
Phil was probably 2 seconds faster, but in what part of the track was he faster?
I know that Timmy can brake late and that was probably the difference.

Roberto* :4:
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:blink: I'm unsure that "where" would even matter :dunno: . 2 seconds is an eternity. Phil pretty much left me like I was standing still and I was running mid to low 48s. :( Anyways, I'm sure that Martin, Peter, Phil and Timmy had a good time racing and I am sure that we will get to do it again. Hopefully, we'll have our own class next time! :D

[Martin Lenick]

Rick,
I'm not sure what you meant when you said, "hopefully we'll have our own class next time."

I hope you're not discouraged to run with the slower TaG's. My hope for the sake of CHMS is that there will be too many DD2's and TaG's to run on the track at one time.

If that doesn't happen, I hope the DD2's and the TaG's race together, with the DD2's starting up front (why they started in back last weekend is rediculous - I'm going to ask Les about that foolish capitulation).

You and Peter J are in DD2's, I'll be there, too.

We've got to get Mickelson. (too bad Greg isn't going to join us)

[Rick]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 4 2006, 08:04 PM
Rick,
I'm not sure what you meant when you said, "hopefully we'll have our own class next time."....My hope for the sake of CHMS is that there will be too many DD2's and TaG's to run on the track at one time.


I'm hoping for the same thing that you are. I hope that we will have 3 or more DD2s AND that Les will make a class for DD2.

Originally posted by Martin Lenick+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Martin Lenick)</div>I hope you're not discouraged to run with the slower TaG's.[/b]

:rolleyes: No need to patronize us now! :lol1:

It's simple mathematics: 47 < 48 :yes:

Originally posted by Martin Lenick+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Martin Lenick)</div>If that doesn't happen, I hope the DD2's and the TaG's race together, with the DD2's starting up front (why they started in back last weekend is rediculous - I'm going to ask Les about that foolish capitulation).
[/b]

That was my fault. Les asked us and I told him to put DD2s in the back. I did this based solely on the laptimes of Peter, you and myself. I thought that the TAG guys would be faster than all DD2s (with the exception of Phil). And I also know Phil likes to start from the back.

<!--QuoteBegin-Martin Lenick@
You and Peter J are in DD2's, I'll be there, too.

Are you getting a DD2!!!?? :)

<!--QuoteBegin-Martin Lenick
We've got to get Mickelson. (too bad Greg isn't going to join us)

I agree. I've been trying to get him to come out and try out my kart. I tried to get you to drive it too! :wall:

[Martin Lenick]

p.s.

Rick,
Thank you for your ceaseless efforts to get me to try your new kart. I knew that it would sway my decision, that's why I refused. I've now made my decision for other reasons. DD2.

[Rick]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 4 2006, 08:15 PM
p.s.

Rick,
Thank you for your ceaseless efforts to get me to try your new kart.* I knew that it would sway my decision, that's why I refused.* I've now made my decision for other reasons. DD2.
2110


You're going to run DD2!!!! http://www.euroteknik.com/forum/images/smilies/fruit.gifhttp://www.euroteknik.com/forum/images/smilies/fruit.gif
http://www.euroteknik.com/forum/images/smilies/grouphug.gif <-- Peter, Martin, Dave, Rick, Phil

If I had to guess, I would guess that your reason is that you simply have no competition in TAG. :dunno: :D

[Martin Lenick]

No. It's because I've always enjoyed racing with you and Peter.
No shit.

I'm not counting on Mickelson signing on... but how cool would that be??!!!

[Martin Lenick]

DAVE.... WHERE ARE YOU? ARE YOU EVEN WATCHING THIS FORUM? RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[If I had to guess, I would guess that your reason is that you simply have no competition in TAG.]

[No. It's because I've always enjoyed racing with you and Peter.
No shit.]

For a minute there I thought it's because you were coming to kick my azz

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[I hope that we will have 3 or more DD2s AND that Les will make a class for DD2.]

[My hope for the sake of CHMS is that there will be too many DD2's and TaG's to run on the track at one time.]

Watching 3 or 4 karts in a class go around for 12 laps can get boring. I would rather see more mixed classes to increase kart count in each race. It also allows for more passing which makes it exciting to watch. I would venture to say, most of the spectators at CHMS on Saturday, didn't know I was 2 secs faster than Timmy.....all they saw was a close exciting race. I'm with Martin on this one, I would vote to run with the TAG's or even the shifters until the classes got too big and became a safety issue.

[You and Peter J are in DD2's, I'll be there, too.]

DD2? (CRG, Birel, PCR etc) or RM1? or does it matter?

[Rick]

Originally posted by CoolBreezeRacer@Oct 4 2006, 10:32 PM
I would venture to say, most of the spectators at CHMS on Saturday, didn't know I was 2 secs faster than Timmy.....all they saw was a close exciting race.

:blink: Actually Phil, all the spectators I talked to thought that you were clearly faster than everyone (including Timmy). A couple of people asked me why you didn't pass Timmy in one of the qualifiers. They said you closed on him very fast and you were bumping into his rear bumper when you could have easily passed. Apparently you received a black flag for that race and were DQ'ed for "aggressive driving". :lol1: 2 seconds is like 3/4ths of the back straight. That kind of difference is definitely visually noticeable... both on the track and off the track.

Originally posted by Phil
Watching 3 or 4 karts in a class go around for 12 laps can get boring. I would rather see more mixed classes to increase kart count in each race. It also allows for more passing which makes it exciting to watch.

I'm with Martin on this one, I would vote to run with the TAG's or even the shifters until the classes got too big and became a safety issue.


Mixing classes can be fun, but I think that it's less fun when classes start to intefere with each other. At CIR, they mix heavy weight and light weights all the time and sometimes there are problems when a lightweight and a heavyweight are racing for position when they really shouldn't be.

What's the minimum number of karts to have a seperate class? I think Les said he wanted 10, but I only saw 5 or 6 TAGs.

[David Mickelson]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 5 2006, 01:46 AM
DAVE....* WHERE ARE YOU?* ARE YOU EVEN WATCHING THIS FORUM?* RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US.* RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US.
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[David Mickelson]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 5 2006, 01:46 AM
DAVE....* WHERE ARE YOU?* ARE YOU EVEN WATCHING THIS FORUM?* RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US.* RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US. RACE WITH US.
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I’m watching and I’m hurt you have no faith in me for next year.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[Apparently you received a black flag for that race and were DQ'ed for "aggressive driving". ]

I've never heard 'bump drafting' called 'aggressive driving' before but you're right, that's what it was classified as and I was DQ'd for it. I've never thought there was anything wrong with bump drafting and I still don't. The reason Les gave me for the black flag was that by me doing it, less experienced racers watching might try it and cause a wreck. So does that mean if I power slide through the Monza and someone else tries that and go flying off the track, I'll be black flagged for drifting? Doesn't make sense to me but I'm playing in his yard so I'll follow his rules.

[Mixing classes can be fun, but I think that it's less fun when classes start to intefere with each other. At CIR, they mix heavy weight and light weights all the time and sometimes there are problems when a lightweight and a heavyweight are racing for position when they really shouldn't be.]

To each his own on this subject. It's obvious that I think different from most so I would'nt be surprised if my view on this is unpopular. Indoor karting is a completely different animal. With low hp karts, limited stopping power, no run off room, I agree, mixing classes could create a problem and lead to frustration for the racers. However in outdoor karting, I'm all for mixing classes. Personally I would prefer to see a group of 30 to 40 karts on the track at the same time even if it meant running 6 or 7 classes together :4:

Although I guess I am not really alone on this because in the Masters Pro Series, we mix classes and as far as I know, the guys like it. The reason they do is, let's say a rookie shifter guy can't keep up with the rest of his class, instead of running in the back all alone, he gets to mix it up with some of the faster guys from the next class down. On the other side of the coin, I agree, a kart from another class could 'interfere' with a couple guys racing for position, but I think that just adds another aspect to the racing to make it more interesting. No different than coming up on lapped traffic, but there again, some whiners, I mean racers :diablotin: want these guys black flagged off instead of having to work around them.

[Martin Lenick]

Originally posted by mick500@Oct 5 2006, 08:06 AM
I’m watching and I’m hurt you have no faith in me for next year.
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It's not that I don't have faith in you, I'm just surprised you're not bored with beating us all the time.

Then again, that could change at Norway :D

[Rick]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 5 2006, 09:54 AM
It's not that I don't have faith in you, I'm just surprised you're not bored with beating us all the time.

Then again, that could change at Norway :D
2123


The gauntlet has been thrown! :lol1: :lol:

[Martin Lenick]

Look what I stumbled upon:

Associated Press
Golf Champion Phil Mickelson Admonishes Little Brother.
Byline - Augusta, October 5, 2006

Golfing great Phil Mickelson brought family differnces to the public forum today when he announced his dissapointment in his brother Dave's decision to persue a career in racing instead of golf.

Dave Mickelson, the Ty Webb of karting, expressed his interest in competing in the 2007 series at Concept Haulers Motor Speedway in a recent post on the ChicagoRacers.com forum, a move that would clearly impact his golf career. His brother Phil was shocked, and said to AP reporter Lartin Menick, "that little creep, after all I've done for him... well, I guess some people just don't belong."

News of Dave Mickelson's commitment to the leagues of DD2 karting appeared yesterday on the ubiquitous ChicagoRacers.com forum. Phil was quoted as saying to unnamed sources, "he'd better kick butt, or he's not invited to our annual Putt-Putt event."

[Rick]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 5 2006, 08:23 PM
Look what I stumbled upon:

Associated Press
Golf Champion Phil Mickelson Admonishes Little Brother.
Byline - Augusta, October 5, 2006

Golfing great Phil Mickelson brought family differnces to the public forum today when he announced his dissapointment in his brother Dave's decision to persue a career in racing instead of golf.

Dave Mickelson, the Ty Webb of karting, expressed his interest in competing in the 2007 series at Concept Haulers Motor Speedway in a recent post on the ChicagoRacers.com forum, a move that would clearly impact his golf career.* His brother Phil was shocked, and said to AP reporter Lartin Menick, "that little creep, after all I've done for him... well, I guess some people just don't belong."

News of Dave Mickelson's commitment to the leagues of DD2 karting appeared yesterday on the ubiquitous ChicagoRacers.com forum.* Phil was quoted as saying to unnamed sources, "he'd better kick butt, or he's not invited to our annual Putt-Putt event."
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:blink: :lol1: http://www.euroteknik.com/forum/images/smilies/lmao.gifhttp://www.euroteknik.com/forum/images/smilies/lmao.gif

[David Mickelson]

Originally posted by Martin Lenick@Oct 6 2006, 01:23 AM
Look what I stumbled upon:

Associated Press
Golf Champion Phil Mickelson Admonishes Little Brother.
Byline - Augusta, October 5, 2006

Golfing great Phil Mickelson brought family differnces to the public forum today when he announced his dissapointment in his brother Dave's decision to persue a career in racing instead of golf.

Dave Mickelson, the Ty Webb of karting, expressed his interest in competing in the 2007 series at Concept Haulers Motor Speedway in a recent post on the ChicagoRacers.com forum, a move that would clearly impact his golf career.* His brother Phil was shocked, and said to AP reporter Lartin Menick, "that little creep, after all I've done for him... well, I guess some people just don't belong."

News of Dave Mickelson's commitment to the leagues of DD2 karting appeared yesterday on the ubiquitous ChicagoRacers.com forum.* Phil was quoted as saying to unnamed sources, "he'd better kick butt, or he's not invited to our annual Putt-Putt event."
2131



Funny stuff.

Looks like I will have to leave the clubs in the locker on Saturdays next year but I'll still have Sundays to play.

[Rick]

Originally posted by mick500@Oct 6 2006, 08:08 AM
Funny stuff.

Looks like I will have to leave the clubs in the locker on Saturdays next year but I'll still have Sundays to play.
2140


Sunday is tuning day though... :D