Spec kart vs. others

[ScottPod]

How much faster is a KT100 or HPV comprared to a Spec kart? Is the spec kart even worth buying? I've messaged a few spec kart owners but I still want more opinions. I'm looking to buy my first kart and can't wait for warmer weather to try some out. Many people are saying start in a TAG but I don't want to spend a boat load of money until I know for sure where I want money to end up.

Thanks for any help, advice, info, any thing helps this rookie.

[Rick]

I have driven SpecRacer (clone), HPV, and Tag.

I think it depends on your experience, need for speed and budget. For me, SpecRacer feels slow. HPV is very similar (but faster over all terminal velocity) in feel to CIR. Tag is crazy fast for most people. And if you're asking, that means it will most likely be scary fast.

Questions for you:

So what is your racing experience?
What is your performance driving experience?
Do you want to compete with the best people you can?
Do you want a chance to win in the first year?
How much money do you want to spend?
How much time can you spend per week on racing?
Where do you plan on racing?

Also check out the FAQ --> http://www.chicagoracers.com/wiki/index.php/Kart_Racing_FAQ

I would venture to say that SpecRacer and/or HPV will be the best places to start if you are planning on racing mostly at Norway. Both classes have really good competition and good people in the class that will help you. The decision will depend on your need for speed coupled with your budget.

If you are really committed, and have a tow vehicle, and can withstand being last place for a while, then TAG may be the way to go. You can almost go to any track in the country and they will have a TAG class. Unfortunately, the numbers have dropped off at Norway last season. So take that into consideration if you are planning on only racing at Norway.

[Ed Q]

Rick has some great points here. I ran Spec last year for the first time and it was a blast. Great group of guys to hang with, lots of entries every week (10-12) and the cost of racing, including your equipment (kart, engine, etc) is very low. If you want to keep costs to a minimum, learn a ton and have fun doing it this is a great way to go.

As for speed, they top out around 55mph which isn't the fastest out there but when your running nose to tail and swapping positions on the track the speed doesn't enter my mind because I'm having so much fun.

There is also another group that will run clones at Norway this year conforming to WKA rules so if you wanted to try another track that ran clones you probably could. costs will probably be similar but chassis will be open.

This is my two cents on Spec because it is what I know. HPV is great as well so hopefully others will chime in on that class.

[Jim R]

Scottpod, I have 2 Margay's w/ Leopard for sale I would make you a swinging deal on one of them. They can become KT100'S OR hpv kpv karts. Any eng package you mentioned you will have fun in some take more effort and cash than others and also how competitive are you has a lot to do with it.
Good luck
Jim

[Jeff Salak]

Between Spec and Clone. I would go with a clone. Buy a used chassie and be done with it. Pick up good used chassies right now fairly easy for good price.

Otherwise go with a Tag and buy Jims equipement. Its well taken care of!

To the Spec kart racers. How are your chassies holding up after one year? I ask this cause when I was at Halloween race some of those karts looked beat to ****! Are you able to tune them? Now that there is a clone class with open chassie would you have rather gone that route? I think these are some questions you would want to ask some of the other spec racers.

Spec wouldnt be for me. I like going to other tracks and trying them out on race day. With a Spec kart your stuck to race at one track.

[Jim R]

Jeff, where are clone's running?
Jim

[Jeff Salak]

Jim they are racing them all around the country, at almost every club track. I think every track should offer this class at this time. Try and keep the existing racers around. And a cheep way for newbies to come in.

RockIsland Grand Prix is offering this class this year and I believe a few other race series are thinking about supporting this class.

[rct25]

Championship Enduro Series CES , is also offering a clone class.

Roberto


http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=92465

Yes, the Championship Enduro Series, America's Finest Karting Series, is inviting
all clone racers (aka 4-Cycle International) to race with them beginning this season:
10 races on 5 weekends at 5 great venues in the Midwest.
This is long-track racing at it's best!
GingerMan (Michigan) - May 22-23
Grattan (Michigan) - June 26-27
*BlueGrass Motorsports Park (Kentucky - July 17-18
BlackHawk Farms (Wisconsin/Illinois) - August 6-7
*Autobahn Country Club (Illinois) - September 18-19
Note: Each day is a complete race event!,
Friday practice will be available at each venue.)

For more information, see www.ChampionshipEnduro.com (http://www.championshipenduro.com/) or www.RiverValleyKartClub.com. (http://www.rivervalleykartclub.com./)
Tech info will be posted very soon.

*= New Venues in 2010!

[ELIN4RACE]

We have a used spec for sale if interested.He is moving to the hpv class next year.
The class is a blast and the guys are great.
Just thought i would let you know that there is a used spec available.
Thanks and have a great day.

[Ed Q]

Jeff,

The spec chassis are holding up well. God knows I beat mine up a bit last season and not one weld cracked nor is my chassis bent. You can tune them to some extent. I put camber pills in mine and corner weighted it but that's it. Axle is not something that can be changed out in the class.

[ELIN4RACE]

Spec class is a blast. The speed is not as fast as hpv but the fun vs cost is way better.
The spec that is for sale is the two time track record holder and class champion kart. Spare wheels and tires. spare front bumper,spare seat never used.
Spec is a fantastic entry level class and the bang for your buck is great.
I would tell anyone that has never been involved in karting to start in this class.
The folks at Norway do a great job to help and the guys that are involved in this class will make you feel welcome and assist you in any way.

Hope to see everyone at the track soon.

If interested post an email.

[avmaviator]

Spec class is a blast. The speed is not as fast as hpv but the fun vs cost is way better.
The spec that is for sale is the two time track record holder and class champion kart. Spare wheels and tires. spare front bumper,spare seat never used.
Spec is a fantastic entry level class and the bang for your buck is great.
I would tell anyone that has never been involved in karting to start in this class.
The folks at Norway do a great job to help and the guys that are involved in this class will make you feel welcome and assist you in any way.

Hope to see everyone at the track soon.

If interested post an email.

Does it come with the 300lbs of lead you had to put on there Christian? :grinyes:

[ELIN4RACE]

Christian? No, sorry. Just a fan of Norway and racing in general.
Guess again..Lol.
I believe you have the wrong person.
Thanks though.

[avmaviator]

Christian? No, sorry. Just a fan of Norway and racing in general.
Guess again..Lol.
I believe you have the wrong person.
Thanks though.

Ah alright, I thought Christian had the track record in spec.

-----

My take on Spec vs hpv. Personally, Spec is too slow, although the close racing is good in that class. HPV is nice but there are a couple things I don't like such as no idle, no onboard starter, etc.. but all these points are not very important. The engines are good and fairly cheap.
TAG is more expensive but a lot more speed and fun (at least for me), but like the others have said, the numbers have dropped off at Norway in TAG entries. This year I will be traveling more and trying new things in TAG (road racing).

Arno

[LikeStig]

Ah alright, I thought Christian had the track record in spec.

-----

My take on Spec vs hpv. Personally, Spec is too slow, although the close racing is good in that class. HPV is nice but there are a couple things I don't like such as no idle, no onboard starter, etc.. but all these points are not very important. The engines are good and fairly cheap.
TAG is more expensive but a lot more speed and fun (at least for me), but like the others have said, the numbers have dropped off at Norway in TAG entries. This year I will be traveling more and trying new things in TAG (road racing).

Arno

:iagree:
I've personally never driven a spec kart, but from what I've heard they're quite boring for an experienced racer. I know lots of people have said that the chassis are very brittle and if your rear bumper hits a curb, your in for one big repair. I race HPV and KT100 Supercan and they are both good engines, HPV being the best. I (And I know Ryans said the same thing) haven't had much luck with a Parilla Leopard in TAG; it seemed like one thing went wrong after another. HPV is also a very consistant engine so there really aren't any "Hot" engines.

[Matt]

TAG is more expensive but a lot more speed and fun



Yeah Arno but also remember that the cost of maintaining a TaG is a lot greater than the cost of keeping up a KPV

[ELIN4RACE]

Spec is an ENTRY level class.
We all know they are not the fastest. Why debate it.
All im saying is that it is a good entry level class that is very cost effective for someone or family just getting started.
Maybe people with lots of money should go to indy this May. Does that make sense? No.
We all start down different paths,Good luck to everyone that chooses what is best for thier pocket book and Family.
The best of luck to all of you this year.

[Jeff Salak]

Jeff, where are clone's running?
Jim


Jim, they are racing at 61 Kartway. I think Concepts should offer this class. Might get some people back out. I would think that people who have the itch to kart but are low on financial waste for karting. Might come out and just have some fun. At least this would be a way to get back out there with family and friends until things are better.

ED Q thanks for sharing how they are holding up! Think this is an important for people thinking about running that class.

[Scott]

My spec chassis held up perfectly last season. 13 races and Ed backed it over a curb at speed. I'm going to strap a clone on their this year and have some more fun with it. Maybe even take it to RIGP. After that I think I will be looking for a used chassis....

[avmaviator]

Yeah Arno but also remember that the cost of maintaining a TaG is a lot greater than the cost of keeping up a KPV
Hence why I wrote "TAG are more expensive".... For me the huge contrast on sensations is worth the extra money.

[LikeStig]

Back to the clone karts, i think they're a great idea. But, I cant see anything too successful in the long term unless everyone starts to run the Briggs and Straton Local 206 option engine. When (If) that happens, then we will see alot more clones because it will be much more realistic to run at other tracks because they will all have similar rules. And not to mention a engine designed to be ran on a kart.

[Ed Q]

Jeff,

There will be 7-8 guys, including myself, running clones at Norway this year under WKA rules. I think having this class with the option on any chassis will bring more people to the track and sport. Just another option the the already popular Spec class. Not many people are crazy about Clone's however I think a lot of those people, including myself, will move into 2 cycle and stay in the sport.

[Jeff Salak]

Ed Q thats great I didnt know that they were racing clones at Concepts this year. Its a good way to start and see if you will enjoy it enough to move on to faster karts. Nothing wrong with a clone or spec. Its all racing, fun and laughter!

I think this class will grow(clone). People want to race but are so tight on money. Most cant justify spending alot of money right now, say in Tag class. So hopefully this will get some new and old faces back.

I for one dont care what classes people are running. I just know when you pull in at a track and the entry count is a 50 for all classes something has to be done. This may be the best and least expensive way to get people envolved in karting besides Indoor karts.

[ScottPod]

Great info. Does Norway have rentals to try out? Like real karts not the arrive & drive stuff.

[Ed Q]

ScottPod,

Andy out at Norway has a Spec that I'm sure he'd let you try out. He also has a TAG kart that he uses in driver academies. Not sure how free he is with it though.

[Rick]

Spec is an ENTRY level class. We all know they are not the fastest. Why debate it.

It's the title of the thread and the original poster wanted opinions on Spec Racers vs other karts. I don't think anyone is putting down Spec Racer karts at all. I also race indoor karts and find it to be just as challenging as TAG. I could see how you could see some of the posts as being perhaps speed snobbish though.

You are right, the Spec Racers look like a great entry class and I probably would have started there myself had it been available earlier. But trust me, if I had the money, I would be racing Indy cars even if I came in dead last every time. :grinyes:

But what I want to know is what is the difference between Spec Racers and Clones besides the open chassis? Is there any power difference? Are clones the new Animal? From my very limited understanding, the clone engines and the spec engines are the same. They are basically clones of the same engines on the CIR indoor karts. And I've been told they cost around $200? Now if that is true, is putting it on a $4000 chassis really going to keep it affordable? At that price, you are quickly reaching the cost of HPV.

[Rick]

There will be 7-8 guys, including myself, running clones at Norway this year under WKA rules. I think having this class with the option on any chassis will bring more people to the track and sport. Just another option the the already popular Spec class. Not many people are crazy about Clone's however I think a lot of those people, including myself, will move into 2 cycle and stay in the sport.

Hey Ed, so are you racing clones or moving into 2 cycle?

Can I suggest shifter! :grinyes: I need to build a class at Norway to race with so I can practice before I move to LA.

[Ed Q]

Rick,

The clone motors should have the same power as the Spec engines. Prices are under $200 for the yellow clone (and Spec) motor and land about $300 after you factor in the carb, header and fuel pump on the clone. From what I understand though, the yellow motors that are going to be used are purposely built for race and are paid a bit more attention at the plant. This is just the limited info I have been told.

In addition to the open chassis, I believe you can play with the axle, brakes (for the people with the Spec chassis) and clutch. I agree that buying a new chassis would not make sense. I think it's pretty foolish to blow that kind of money for a clone and I can't imagine people doing it.

[Ed Q]

Rick,

Yeah I decided to go the clone route this season for a few different reasons. The main one being the core group of people I love to race with are going that way. Potentially hitting other tracks interests me as well, i.e the RIGP this year for clone!

If I had the cash for shifter I'd be there!!! Next season, unless plans change, I'm planning on moving over to 2-cycle though. When are you moving to LA? You going for work?

[Jeff Salak]

Now if that is true, is putting it on a $4000 chassis really going to keep it affordable? At that price, you are quickly reaching the cost of HPV.

Rick there is most likely up to 500 karts in Chicago area collecting dust in the garage. For $200 they are back racing and having fun. This is how its afordable! Unlike a Tag Kart that takes about $300 everytime you bring the damn thing out!

Im sure these karts wont go through tires like a Tag, Im sure they wont rev themselves to death.....I could go on all day!

Im also sure there is no need to buy a $4000 new chassie for a clone kart. Use what you have or for newbies find one of these 500 dust collectors and you can get a chassie for a fraction of the cost thus keeping it afordable.

Can you get it now?

You can get quality used chassies on ekarting for $500 and up. So with engine and new tires your under a grand and your racing!

[Jeff Salak]

Even if you paid $1000 for a used chassie your getting into the sport rather inexpensive. This way you can see how much you like it and then you can see for yourselves over time what other class you might move up too.

[rct25]

These are the rules for the WKA Clone class

http://www.worldkarting.com/downloads/temp/Rules_CloneMotor.pdf

Another track running the WKA clone class this year is New Castle in Indiana:

https://www.newcastlemotorsportspark.com/index.shtml

2/2/10 - For 2010 KRA will add a Clone engine 4 cycle class. The Clone engines are low cost and must be run very close to box stock and the class is becoming very popular at many tracks. We will be using the new WKA International Class engine rules available here (http://www.worldkarting.com/downloads/techupdates.pdf) (sections 710 thru 710.20). KRA will also have a $200 claimer rule on the clone class for the engine. The Clone class will run on track with the Briggs Animal class and scored seperately. The class will also have open tires and sizes and a minimum weight of 365 lbs. The class will also allow CIK style bodywork or traditional style 4 cycle bodywork.

[Rick]

Roberto, are you going to race clones this year?

[rct25]

Rick,

No, but I believe the class offers a great option for people starting in karting; even for people with a few years in karting, the class is a good way to go racing.

I am going to race some TaG Masters at Badger ; family schedule and budget are the main factors on how many races I do. It looks like I will be able to do 6 or 7 races this year. Also, I am going to try to race Rock Island.

Roberto

[Rick]

I agree with you Roberto. I think it's an awesome class and trend. Anything that brings in more people to the sport will benefit everyone from shops to racers.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

We will have a clone class this season. I've based the rules off of WKA standards so that racers will be able to run CHMS, NCMP, 61 Kartway, and Springfield with similar packages.

Check out the current status at http://www.jetkarting.com/news/2010-3-15-clone-class

I don't believe this is the best place for most racers, as the cost to run up front is going to be much higher than Spec Racer. You don't get any more equal or easier than tight specs and sealed engines.

On the other hand, some racers want more flexibility. The clone class provides flexibility.


Andy

[Jim R]

Pull the Leopard cut the seat strut! CHEAP FUN ON ORDER 2010 That's what I call it. I may just have to do this, Andy your twisting my arm.....
Jim

[Hornswoggler]

Andy, will clones run on weekends or Fridays?

Also (this question is for anybody...), what would be a good price range for building/buying a clone kart? I would rather race a slow kart for cheap than sit on the bench! HPV would be my first choice... but if clone is much cheaper, that can be tempting!

[Rick]

The chassis will be the most expensive thing in that equation. So anywhere from $500 to $6000 total cost. That depends on what you want. A brand new spec package is around $1700 I think.

I don't know how much used SpecRacers are going for, but I'm sure that's the cheapest way.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Andy, will clones run on weekends or Fridays?


Clones will run on Saturdays, with all the other classes. Spec Racer runs at the completion of the day, with a quick 15 minute break between each track session.

Spec Racer is the best way to get started if you are serious about racing and on a budget. New karts are $1750, and used ones sell so fast I have never had one in stock.

HPV and Rotax are great too, but they do cost more.

Clone is virtually impossible to tech as there is so much open in the engine rule wording. It says all of the parts must remain stock, and gives me no way to know if they are stock or not. That is just one simple example, but there are many more. I've never seen racing at any level that was any more honest than the tech guy can enforce...


Andy

[Rick]

Clone is virtually impossible to tech as there is so much open in the engine rule wording. It says all of the parts must remain stock, and gives me no way to know if they are stock or not. That is just one simple example, but there are many more. I've never seen racing at any level that was any more honest than the tech guy can enforce...



Can I have a stock clone + stock turbo on it? :stickpoke:

[rct25]

And people wonder what is wrong with karting!!!:hmm:

You have what could be one of biggest class at a track and you the racers are in the middle of a "control" dispute of the class between a track owner and a shop kart owner.

Let the class start and then figure out what you have to change to make it "almost perfect".

At the end of the day, the track and shop kart owners will see karting grow and will get the benefits of new racers in the area.

just my 2 cents....


Have a great day everybody!!!!!


Roberto

[Ed Q]

Andy,

Since many people in this new class will be running 2 classes and others have work that may prohibit an earlier start for them, will you considered running clone right before, after or in between Spec?



Clones will run on Saturdays, with all the other classes. Spec Racer runs at the completion of the day, with a quick 15 minute break between each track session.

Spec Racer is the best way to get started if you are serious about racing and on a budget. New karts are $1750, and used ones sell so fast I have never had one in stock.

HPV and Rotax are great too, but they do cost more.

Clone is virtually impossible to tech as there is so much open in the engine rule wording. It says all of the parts must remain stock, and gives me no way to know if they are stock or not. That is just one simple example, but there are many more. I've never seen racing at any level that was any more honest than the tech guy can enforce...


Andy

[Scott]

Well said, Roberto! Karting is something I do for fun. I am middle aged, I'm not going to be the next Ayrton Senna, I'm doing this purely for fun. If people take the fun out of it then what's the point for me? I can think of other things I could be spending my money on....

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

You have what could be one of biggest class at a track and you the racers are in the middle of a "control" dispute of the class between a track owner and a shop kart owner.

Let the class start and then figure out what you have to change to make it "almost perfect".

Roberto-

The issue is not over 'control' of the track or classes. It's about having a set of rules that is enforceable, to allow even racing. The traditional karting classes have it, and clone does not. There are far too many 'stock' parts that don't have a dimension on them for the tech guy to be able to do his job in black or white.

We have the class. Racers have asked in many ways for us to be more in line with what the industry and region are doing. That has driven the change from TAGUSA to WKA tag rules, YKC tires, etc... I have made clone rules that are similar to NCMP, 61 Kartway, and Springfield. They are WKA rules, with WKA tires, WKA chassis, and WKA bodywork. I have added claim rules and allowed the RLV header/muffler. All of this is pretty standard in the region to allow travelling with your kart, and my guess is it will be pretty close to what RIGP does as well. I hope so, as that is what I've tried to do. Like HPV and all the others, I'll try to stay with the region/industry in the future.


Andy

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Andy,

Since many people in this new class will be running 2 classes and others have work that may prohibit an earlier start for them, will you considered running clone right before, after or in between Spec?

Hey Ed-

I took a hard look at it, but I'm not going to be able to run clone with the Spec's. I need to keep Spec Racer a short section of day, and I have a couple other plans to expand the racing and use the 'empty' track time.

I still believe that Spec will grow to the point of needing an A and B main, which will use up the time in itself. I'm also working on a Spec class for the 7-12 year olds that will use a shorter cadet version of the chassis as an option, intake restrictor, and stock exhaust. Between the two, I will have not enough time to run traditional classes in the middle.

Clone will run during the normal part of the day, in the rotation like other classes. When there are racers wanting to run two of any classes, we do our best to split the classes to accomodate that.


Andy

[Rick]

...you the racers are in the middle of a "control" dispute of the class between a track owner and a shop kart owner.

Wow! Had no idea there was a dispute. This is getting interesting. Then, again, there are always disputes over the rules. Look at the TAG USA vs WKA, Leopard vs Rotax, Rok TT, etc, etc. Eventually, the class either starts to fragment or everyone just gets the same engine so they can be competitive. And if someone else comes along with a competitive engine, the dominant group lobbies to get the rules changed in their favor.

I looked at the rulebook (http://www.worldkarting.com/downloads/temp/Rules_CloneMotor.pdf) and it does explicitly say "No modifications allowed of anykind."

[Scott]

If clones are run with the normal classes I am good to need a used chassis for my clone. I'll run clone and spec in the same day and become King of the 4 cycles! I'm gonna need a crown and robe...:bowdown: Andy-will the clones be run on the big track? I also like the idea of spec jr. Maybe it's time to get my son racing....

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

To All-

I know that this has been quite a bumpy ride to get the clone class started, but I'd like to clear the air a little from my side.

We have long had the policy at Norway to run any class that had three or more entries. That is our policy now, and I've never doubted that a clone class could be run. I do have doubts that the class can be more open and maintain the equality that the Spec Racers are known for. Clone is a traditional karting class that will be treated with the same respect that we give other classes.

I am disappointed that the racers didn't come to me with their thoughts directly. Many of the clone racers are not only good customers, but friends. I don't want to lose either of the relationships.

I have not and will not try to kill the clone class. Quite the opposite in fact. I have built the rules similar to other tracks to allow the best possible opportunity for growth. If I wasn't willing to have the class, I simply wouldn't offer it.

The Spec Racer class is something very special in racing. Like SCCA's Spec Miata that I shamelessly copied, it is the closest racing you can have for the lowest cost. It has grown quickly, and will grow more. However, it isn't for everyone. I get that. I'm sure there will be racers that move from Spec to clone, and some will move from clone to Spec.

All racers that play within the rules for their class will always be welcome here. That is no different than it's ever been in Norway. That is the basis for successful track.

I'm posting the clone rules, and moving on to other areas that need my attention. I am really looking forward to having the 'construction' phase of the class done, and getting to move on to the racing phase. I'm sure it will be more fun for all of us!

See you at the track! :)


Andy

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

If clones are run with the normal classes I am good to need a used chassis for my clone. I'll run clone and spec in the same day and become King of the 4 cycles! I'm gonna need a crown and robe...:bowdown: Andy-will the clones be run on the big track? I also like the idea of spec jr. Maybe it's time to get my son racing....

Hey Scott-

I'm expecting to run clone on the big track. It's my understanding that is what the group want's. Which would you prefer?

I do have 3 chassis that would work for clone nicely. $500 get choice. Two are virtually brand new condition, just many years old.

Spec Jr. is coming, but not sure on the timing. All depends on how long it takes to build the equipment right. I'm hearing I might have a prototype in 6-8 weeks.

And I think you'd make a fine King!

Andy

[Ed Q]

Andy,

I would actually prefer sticking to the classic track. Don't get me wrong I think the big track would be fun to try out but I like the inner loop with the slower karts. It's a section of the track that is fun to get just right and take advantage of the karts that don't get it right.

Hey Scott-

I'm expecting to run clone on the big track. It's my understanding that is what the group want's. Which would you prefer?



Andy

[Ed Q]

Thanks for that Andy. We want nothing but the best for everyone out there and in no way has this meant to be anything against Spec because I think it is and was a brilliant idea. This is something different that we think will be fun to try and as Spec will grow we hope clone will as well which will bring more racers, and entries, to the track. The more racers the better.



To All-

I know that this has been quite a bumpy ride to get the clone class started, but I'd like to clear the air a little from my side. Many of the clone racers are not only good customers, but friends. I don't want to lose either of the relationships.

I have not and will not try to kill the clone class. Quite the opposite in fact. I have built the rules similar to other tracks to allow the best possible opportunity for growth. If I wasn't willing to have the class, I simply wouldn't offer it.





Andy

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

I looked at the rulebook (http://www.worldkarting.com/downloads/temp/Rules_CloneMotor.pdf) and it does explicitly say "No modifications allowed of anykind."

That's what causes all the confusion. The idea is that there are no modifications to keep it cheap. But I have no way to check for many mods. Let me give two examples:

CAM:
You have to run the 'stock' cam as per the rules. To me this means the one that came in the motor. But what happens if a cam grinding company buys blank cams from the chinese and grinds them better? How can I tell in tech? All I can check is max lift of the valve, and they would pass that.

Wanna buy the cam I'm talking about? Dyno CL-1. Or search on Bob's 4 Cycle forum for 'duck' cams. As in, it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's not stock, or un-modified, but passes tech across the whole nation.

HEAD:
You have to run a 'stock' head, unmodified, as per the rules. But there are no specs for me to check if you've re-machined the gasket surface to get more compression. All I can do is check the 26.5cc. The motors should be big stock, just like HPV and Yamaha, so that they will pass. A big cc will give you less compression and less power.

Stock and unmodified are pretty clear 'intents', but how do I know the difference between factory machining, and an engine builder that re-cut it on a mill just like the factory did?



Yamaha and HPV allow engine builders to cut to a certain measurement. Spec Honda shifter has measurements for cylinder height, head volume, templates for head shape, etc. Rotax has measurements and seals. Spec Racer has seals put on by one guy from an un-opened box.

What does clone have?

[Scott]

I talked to a couple of clone guys and they are thinking classic track and a few different configurations along the way. I don't know the logistics of running different configurations than other classes on a race day from a track director's perspective. If it's possible cool if not that's cool too. If you have a rolling chassis for $500 I'll take it! I am going to stop out there next wednesday to say hi, catch up on how things are in spec and clone, and spend some money. Put a chassis aside for me! I just talked to Raysby and he's looking for one too. I think he's going to run hpv, clone, and spec. I think I am also going to need to rent a garage if you have any of the bigger ones available. How much do they go for? Can you fit 3 karts and a throne? See ya Wednesday. Say hi to Kris, Ed and everybody.

[Rick]

Can you fit 3 karts and a throne? See ya Wednesday.

:rofl:http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/burger-king.jpg

[Scott]

That's me alright! Just need to find a bigger helmet...

[Ed Q]

Damn it's good to be the King!:bowdown:


:rofl:http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/burger-king.jpg

[Ed Q]

Andy,

What about taking 3 races out of the year and running Spec and Clone (and maybe throw in the rentals) together? You could grid us separately and change the order of how we go out between heats and the feature. It would be like ALMS with different classes. Keep the fast guys starting at the back and there would be passing on every straight and corner and there would be a winner for each class! Just my 2 cents.

[Hornswoggler]

Is the speed difference between spec and clone really that much? What would be some example laptimes from the two classes?

[Ed Q]

Is the speed difference between spec and clone really that much? What would be some example laptimes from the two classes?


Not sure exactly at this point how much faster or slower they will be. I think the Spec track record is right at 49.0 and one of the guys tested the clone in the very low 50's without much tuning and older tires. So it still remains to be seen.

I do think that mixing the different speeds and experience levels between Spec and Clone would make it fun to group them together for a few races.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

We will not be mixing clone and Spec. Spec's have enough karts to race on their own, and clones will be during the normal raceday.

I think clones will be some faster, but not a lot. If everything is kept to the stock intent in the clone motor, they will have the same power. If everything is done to the letter of the law, they will have 1-2 more hp. Stickier tires will make them a second faster easy, but much less challenging to drive like that.


Andy

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Clone rules are posted at http://www.jetkarting.com/racing/general_rules

Scroll down the page for Clone rules.


Andy

[Rick]

Wow, I like the claim rule! I might have to purchase one of the winning engines and give this a try.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Wow, I like the claim rule! I might have to purchase one of the winning engines and give this a try.

You'd have to be competing in the class already, but yeah, you can claim any engine in the field.

[rct25]

From Ekartingnews:

Greg Hughes



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 386
Location: United States, Iowa, Delmar
http://ekartingnews.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=584508#584508)Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: http://ekartingnews.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://ekartingnews.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=584508) Ron -

You don't rebuild these. If you buy the engine at Harbor Frieght, you can buy a warranty (like 15.00 if I remember right). If it breaks, you take it back, and they give you a new motor. That simple. If you don't have the warranty, well, you whip out anouther 100.00 and buy another motor. With the governer in, the motors will only hit about 3800 rpms or so. Most tracks, including ours, allow removing the governor, which takes the rpms up to around 5800. Tech on these engines is very easy as well (check cam, check springs, check fuel, and done.....)

PM for more info, but keep in mind, this is our track. I'm not certain what rules would apply at other tracks.
_________________
Greg Hughes
'07 CRG Kali 32 \ Rotax
19?? Emmick \ Clone
www.61kartway.com (http://www.61kartway.com/)

[rct25]

Clone race in CA


http://www.vimeo.com/10338045


Roberto

[Rick]

Roberto, I'll sponsor you and pay for 1/2 ($100) of your engine if you promise to race the entire season at Norway in clones and put a sponsorship sticker on your kart.

[rct25]

Rick,

Thanks for the offer:bugeye:
My family summer schedule and other activities are a priority now in my life. Do not forget that I have raced karts for a VERY long time, so it is time to get ready for kid karts.

Once in a while, I will run a few races here and there but that is all the karting for me. Also, I will be tuning again for Paul Russo this year, so if you go to Rock Island, do not hesitate to ask for advice, I can help you to get fast.

My support to the clone class is ONLY for the love of karting and to see a class grow at Norway.

Roberto

[rystar]

Rick,

Thanks for the offer:bugeye:
Unfortunately, my family summer schedule and other activities are a priority now in my life. Do not forget that I have raced karts for a VERY long time, so it is time to get ready for kid karts.

Once in a while, I will run a few races here and there but that is all the karting for me. Also, I will be tuning again for Paul Russo this year, so if you go to Rock Island, do not hesitate to ask for advice, I can help you to get fast.

My support to the clone class is ONLY for the love of karting and to see a class grow at Norway.

Roberto

Roberto,

The only advise Rick needs for the Rock is:) Keep it out of the hay bales buddy:shooting_smilie2:

[Rick]

Come on! How many guys can say they have crashed 4 times in 3 races, welded a chassis frame in between races, bent 2 axles all on the same day on the same chassis? :dunno: