Birel Chassis: M vs Q vs R - Opinions?

[Rick]

What are the differences between the M, Q and R chassis? I looked on Birel's site and could not even find the link for the M31 or the R31. They have a link for the R series, but that seems like a shifter chassis. I've tried searching ekartingnews.com and can't seem to find any technical information regarding the different chassis. I talked to both MRP and Jet Karting about them. MRP thinks that only top drivers can tell the difference between the M and R. And top drivers have both M and R chassis and use the one that works best for them at particular tracks. Les told me that the M has more front end grip than the R, but the R is generally what the fastest drivers use on tracks. However, the M is better for street courses (eg Rock Island). Tim Megenbier posted that he thinks the M31/R31 is the best chassis he's ever driven on. It seems as though Tim views them both very closely related. Oddly enough, I found one guy preferred the same chassis as Martin's Vintage Birel. That Vintage Birel may be better than you think Martin!

Roberto and Martin, what do you guys have? And do you like it?

[rct25]

Rick,

I had an R32 and now I have an M32; what Les told you is exactly what the difference is.....more front grip for the M.
You can see the difference on the middle area of the chassis; the design of the rails is different

http://www.birel.it/uk_100_2.asp

Are you thinking about racing TaG? You would not go wrong with the Birel/Leopard package.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Roberto

[Rick]

Rick,

I had an R32 and now I have an M32; what Les told you is exactly what the difference is.....more front grip for the M.
You can see the difference on the middle area of the chassis; the design of the rails is different

http://www.birel.it/uk_100_2.asp


Thanks for the link Roberto. I thought those were used only for 100cc engines.

Are you thinking about racing TaG? You would not go wrong with the Birel/Leopard package.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Roberto:hmm: I'm seriously considering it. The competition at CHMS looks good and the number of entries looks consistent at around 6 or 7. TAG seems extremely tempting right now since Martin and Dave are racing in that class. Who knows... there could be another TAG on the grid at the next race. :dunno: Roberto: If you committed to racing at CHMS for the rest of the season, I'd probably buy one right now.

[Martin Lenick]

Rick, I think I mistakenly told you that my new chassis is an R31; it's not. It's an M31. The "Vintage" is an M632, the "6" signifying 1996. They're apples and oranges, though. Currently, the easiest way to destinguish M from R by sight is that the M as a single bend near where the brake master-cylinder mounts; the R has a bend, a short straight length, and a return bend. The '96 M, however, has the shape of the current R's in that area.

It's way too early for me to tell the difference or preference. The old cheese-grater brakes seem to have had more bite though. But with the pedal rapidly going further to the floor each race on the old one, I think the consistancy of the new one will be lots better even if there's a bit more stomp required.

In four point races at CHMS this year there have been 16 different qualified TaGs. There are a few more that I know of that haven't been out yet, including Sr. Castro.

It's only going to get bigger.

[rct25]

As Martin just said, TaG is going to get bigger.
As far as engine choice, just look at the numbers every weekend at New Castle, Tag Senior, Tag Masters and Tag Sportsman always have 15 + entries in each class every weekend, all Leopards, at the Robo Pong race last year 30+ karts and all Leopards too. Also, look at the results at WKA this last weekend at South Bend, 30 + karts and there were only 2 Sonics, the rest were Leopards. I believe that in the Midwest area there is no question that the Leopard is the engine to run.
If you look at California or Florida, Rotax has strong races and championships (Gatorz in CA, Florida Winter Tour in FL) but in the Midwest almost everybody has a Parilla Leopard.

I am looking forward to race with you guys soon, I should be at the track in couple weeks.

Roberto

[rct25]

Rick,

No questions? are you still thinking about it?

Roberto

[Rick]

Roberto: I'm just playing around with the idea right now. If I actually got one, it would be in a month or 2. I need a sponsor like Dave. :frown: And there's no space in the garage. Anything's possible. :hmm:

1. Did you get your engine blueprinted or are you considering it? I think Martin said that the guys running at the front at CHMS have their engines blue printed.

2. Are you going to run your engine at 16500+ RPMs?

3. Who do you guys send your engines to have them refreshed or rebuilt? Are they local?

4. How much does that cost to do a rebuild?

5. How long does it take for them to do a rebuild/refresh?

6. Are you going to race in TAG Senior with us at CHMS?

7. If I got a Birel/Leopard TAG kart, would you help me out with how to tune my chassis, engine and carb? :)

8. Are you going to be at the May 19th race?

[Rick]

Rick,

No questions? are you still thinking about it?

Roberto

I'm still thinking about it. :whistle:

[rct25]

Did you find out the right set-up? :whistle:

Roberto

[Rick]

Did you find out the right set-up? :whistle:

Roberto

My spies are watching you. :evil_lol:

[rct25]

LOL :)

Roberto

[tonyb8878]

I have a 2002 Birel shifter chassis with my rotax on it and im still having problems getting it to handle good. I have a 40mm axle on it and long rear hubs with 2.5 spacers in the front spindles. I cant figure out what to do to get it to handle good. I usually run the 4th rail and the front tortion bar. Its usually always loose on me in the monza at norway and it pushes in a lot of the turns.

[Rick]

Sounds like it might be too tight because:

1. Tight in almost every turn.
2. "Appears" to be loose in Monza.

If you have a really tight kart, you might subconsiously keep on turning the steering wheel till the kart responds. And when it does, it does a snap oversteer. That is probably happening to you in the Monza.

Try removing 4th rail and running the rear at max width.

[tonyb8878]

Ok ill try removing the 4th rail. The wheel base in the rear is 54in. is that good or no?

[Racer Of Tomorrow #01]

tag i think u wanna be 54 1/2

[LikeStig]

All karts are different, but this is what I've noticed. Tony, you need to go back to the guy who you bought your kart from and tell him you want the shifter hubs; your front width is waaay too narrow and isn't jacking your chassis enough. Remove that 4th rail, add caster. Drive. You racing this weekend Tony?

[tonyb8878]

I got the better hubs and moved the front out and that helped big time. How do you mess with the castor? I forgot to remove the 4th rail during the 66 race but ill do it for next weekend.

[Racer Of Tomorrow #01]

negetive castor will give u more front grip less rear grip