Data analysis from Blackhawk!

[Hornswoggler]

Ok, this thread is a total tease!! :p

I don't have any completed analysis done on this past Monday (5-21-07) but I DO have the data files available for DOWNLOAD (http://www.sokikuya.com/TrackData/5-21-07_Lotus_Corps_HPDE.zip) if anybody is inclined enough to install the Traqview software (http://www.traqmate.com/downloads/traqview/TraqSetupReleaseV130NoDoc.exe) and give it a tinker. I think this would be a great community discussion since some of you seem pretty inclined with racecraft and figuring out how to go faster.

Any takers?

[Hornswoggler]

BTW, some info on the sessions I have in the zipped download above.

It was the first track event (HPDE) for David in the S2000. He has quite a few years of auto-x experience and brake pads were Cobalt Friction GT Sport. He was on some sticky street tires. Not bad times for a first event, the car should have plenty more in it... lets find him some speed!

Joe in the SRT-4 started doing DE events last spring (2006) and has previous experience at Autobahn (both north and south) and gingerman. I have included Joe and his car in a few previous analysis threads (to see these search for threads created by me at euroteknik or bimmerforums track section... I think I cross-posted one here (http://www.chicagoracers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3182) too). Joe is usually a few seconds slower than I am, but I credit my hardware as he seems to be a very good driver.

I have a few years experience doing this kinda stuff (since 2003) and my car is fairly well prepared although it still has full interior and 700W stereo system adding "rewards" weight. Tires are Toyo RA-1 235/40-17 and car is about 3,200 lbs without driver. I had a passenger in that session, so there might be some time gained being ~160 lbs lighter. Still, this was a personal best and only my second time at BHF. As an instructor, I had to be a fine example of smoothness and consistency, but I won't use that as an excuse for my 1:23.250 :D

[Rick]

According to the host of the Martin Lenick Bottle show, Martin Lenick, Reed is very good at this stuff. I'll take a look at it too and check out the TraqMate software. BTW, I had a very interesting conversation with someone from AIM regarding GPS vs accelerometers.

[Hornswoggler]

BTW, I had a very interesting conversation with someone from AIM regarding GPS vs accelerometers.

good thing traqmate uses both... best of both worlds!! :D

[Rick]

good thing traqmate uses both... best of both worlds!! :D

AIM also has the same capability; albeit at a higher price ($599) and higher resolution (10Hz vs 4Hz).

Well I noticed one thing that might have caused you to think that my car is pulling you on the straights (and it probably is; at least until it hits that big wall of air at around 100mph). Your entry speed into 7 is 40-50mph compared to mine which were 60-70 mph (sustained through the corner and accelerating out). I was reaching velocities of 100+mph before the start/finish. And from looking at the data, you're actually reaching about 100-110mph at the start finish.

The software looks pretty cool. I like how it interpolates braking points by looking at the Gs. If I got one, I'd hook up some potientiometers to the throttle and brake pedal. I guess the next step is to compare the AIM software and sample data against this.

So how do you generate the best theoretical lap or rolling lap with the TraqMate software?

[Hornswoggler]

Traqmate doesn't calculate theoretical best lap, I would do this with segment analysis and lots of manual labor.

Once you get into TPS, steering position sensors, and brake position sensors, AIM would probably be the much better choice ( but i still want to be convinced!! :evil_lol: ). My first choice would be steering position sensor to hopefully figure out how many degress of slip angle. that would be cool! (throttle and brake could be somewhat figured out by forward and negative g forces)

[Rick]

I'm not sure what you want to be convinced about. I think AIM just offers more things:

1. Integrated display with Tachometer
2. warning lights for 4 analog inputs
3. shift lights
4. lap count
5. most current lap time
6. best lap time
7. predictive lap time

An MXL Pista costs around $1700. If you add the GPS unit and additional sensors, the total cost is around $2500. I think that the $2500 does buy you a better system but is it worth it for track days? The TraqMate does look like a very good deal.

[Martin Lenick]

I had a very interesting conversation with someone from AIM regarding GPS vs accelerometers.

Please tell us about this.

[Rick]

You have to be in the Circle of Trust to gain access to that information. :evil_lol:

[CIR-Reed]

I played around with the Traqmate software tonight. It is not software that I am used to so I can't get the maximum value out of it. I also have no idea what the capabilities of your car are.

There seems to be some indication of trail braking. The braking zones seem longish (again, I don't know the capability of your car).

I will look at this more tomorrow and see if I can figure more stuff out. Is there any data for throttle position, engine rpm, or brake pressure?

[Rick]

Is there any data for throttle position, engine rpm, or brake pressure?

The TraqMate website does list an optional connector that allows you to hook up additional inputs:

TraqData allows you to hook up 4 analogs operating on 5, 10, or 20 volt ranges, 2 digitals, and a tach signal input to your Traqmate. This device will work with vehicles using a traditional coil or having a 12V ECU signal, 12V Fuel injector pulse, or 12V Coil-on-plug firing signal. It will also work with a 5V ECU or Tach signal.

All sensors purchased separately.

For electronic ignition systems (5V or 12V signals), order the Electronic ignition version. To connect to the negative side of an ignition coil, order the Coil Version. Available Options:


With that thing you could add tps, brake, steering and rpm. I'm not sure how it would look in the software though. I can't find any sample files with TPS and brake data.

[CIR-Reed]

I think the AIM software is better for hardcore data analysis. I am much more familiar with it though so that could be effecting my opinion.

It is interesting. Colin's terminal speed on the straight is 10 mph hour than the spec racer's and his speed at what I think is the apex of turn 1 is 9 mph lower. I can see now why the braking zones look a lot longer. They are doing a lot more work!

[Hornswoggler]

No, I do not have RPM's or TPS, brake pressure, etc. but I DO have the adapter... just need to get off my lazy butt and install it! (i would still need any sensors, like TPS, steering position, etc.)

I would love to hear all I can comparing the traqmate to the more high-end systems like AIM. Not that I have the budget for a nice AIM setup, but its good to start planning upgrades and I have started doing data acq for a club racing team this year so maybe we would all reach the point someday where we outgrow the capabilities of the traqmate (i am not there yet).

I consider the traqmate (and G2X, DL1) to be more like "data acq for dummies". Great starting point, but there is always the potential to outgrow it later. I would rather take this approach than jump head first, also considering my limited budget. :( Still, I would love to hear some of the AIM advantages.

My peak braking can reach 1.6 g's or so, sustained over 1.2 g's. Front pads are Cobalt XR2 in a stoptech ST-40 caliper (332mm floating rotors). Car is pretty heavy (about 3,200 lbs + driver, passenger, and gas). 246 rwhp so I can hit some decent speeds. Tires are Toyo RA-1 235/40-17 (i have some 255's getting mounted tomorrow!)

[Hornswoggler]

There seems to be some indication of trail braking.


trail braking is not a bad thing. I need to start doing this more so I can brake later. Turn in does not require max lateral grip anyways, so there is some extra capacity for trail braking. This is all going by what Ross Bentley was explaining to me a few weeks ago... :)