How to get into karting?

[Hornswoggler]

I know there are some pretty hardcore karting guys on this board... and unfortunately most of the karting threads are over my head. I am getting an itch to start doing some wheel-2-wheel racing and karting would be much easier on the budget than any sports car/sedan racing.

What does it take to make a serious effort for a season of karting? I would be curious the initial investment and ongoing costs. Also, what does the typical season consist of? (i.e. travel, piston cup, classing, etc). Will I get beat by kids?

My karting experience is limited to CIR arrive-and-drive (their equip) and fun park karts (various locations). I have no illusion to become a racing star, its just an expensive hobby and I would hope to (eventually) hold my own.

Thanks for tolerating my newb question! lol

[Rick]

The easiest and cheapest way to do it is to do an "arrive and drive" league. I'd recommend CIR. Most of the guys here started doing arrive and drives and then eventually league races at CIR.

You should pay $1000 for an Enduro package so you can practice. An Enduro Package gives you 100 races for $10 each. You save $1500. You'll end up paying about $60-90 per race (not arrive and drive). There are about 6 races for the "Pro Series". That will cost you about $450 total. You'll probably want to enter at least one 200 Lap Endurance race. That will cost you about $150. So a "season" of kart racing at CIR would probably cost you around $1600.

HPV is a huge class at Norway and I think it's really popular every where else too. A brand new HPV engine and chassis will cost you about $3500-$4000 total. But you don't necessarily need brand new equipment. You can probably get a good used package for about $2000.

If you want to go faster, you can move up to TAG karts. These are 125cc two stroke water cooled engines with single speed transmission and a low speed stall clutch. This class is extremely popular in the midwest and you should have no problems finding a place to race one of these karts. This class is popular because it allows many different engine manufacturers and chassis. All the classes are made even by weight penalties. A TAG kart costs around $6500-$8000 new. You can buy a used one for about $2500-$3000. And you can even win a club championship with a 10 year old chassis (ask Martin).

There's also the Rotax Challenge. The Rotax Challenge FR125 karts qualify as a TAG karts. If you own an FR125 you can race in both the Rotax Challenge and/or TAG. The Rotax Challenge uses Rotax engines and therefore it is a spec engine class. The Rotax Challenge has a world championship. There's also a DD2 class. The DD2 has a 2 speed paddle shift transmission. It should be about 1 second faster than a TAG kart at a track like CHMS. An FR125 costs about $6500-$7000. A DD2 costs about $9000-10,000.

If you really want to go fast, have lots of money and lots of time, then you might want to get a shifter kart. The maintenance for one of these babies is much higher than the previously mentioned karts/classes. My friend told me he rebuilds his engine after every race. He spends about $25K per season.

A rebuild on a TAG or Rotax motor costs about $300-$500. Probably should do that at the end of every season.

I would recommend you do the following:

1. Pick a local track that you want to race at
2. Go there and watch the races
3. Check out how many entries there are for each class
4. Check out what that track sells
5. Pick something that that track sells and supports

If you do these things, you will have a much easier time and much more fun. You'll benefit from help from others (hopefully). I'd race at least one season at the track you choose and then think about trailering your stuff around to other tracks. The logistics for kart racing are much higher than most people think.

Your highest expenses, other than your initial investment, will be fuel and tires. Fuel generally costs around $10/gallon. Tires cost about $200 a set and they last about 2 weekends (1 weekend if you want to be really competitive). That plus other consumables will probably end up costing you about $3-5K/season. Don't forget to get good health insurance.

Where do you live? And what track do you think you would want to race at?

I'm currently racing in TAG and Rotax DD2. In one weekend, I spend about:

$40 entry fee
$10 transponder rental
$50 fuel
$8 oil
$100 tires (1 set over 2 weekends)
$15 fuel for car
$20 food + drinks
$20 chain lube, wd 40, tools, etc
$150 (trailer fee - sometimes)

$263-450 (per kart) total and about 8 hours of my time

If you add that and other parts like axles, data acquisition, hubs, wheels, etc. You can probably double your costs. If you race at multiple tracks, it will increase your need for different variations of axles, wheels and hubs.

[Hornswoggler]

Awesome!

Imma read this more closely tonight and digest it all. Gotta run to work right now...

Thanks a bunch!

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Collin-

Rick is pretty much on the button with his info. My family and I run CHMS and JET Karting, so if you need anything, please call. Getting new racers in the sport is a point of focus for us.

The best advise I can give to anyone is to follow a few pointers:

1. Set a budget. You should be able to finish the season comfortably without sacraficing track time to make it happen. More seat time is both more fun and more important than the brand new chassis.

2. Buy the best equipment that you can afford without violating rule 1. If you buy equipment that is proven to be able to win, you know that your lap times will fall as you get better. No wondering if the problem is the kart or the driver... After all, if the driver takes credit for being the slow part, later you can take credit for being the FAST part!

3. Work with a shop that will be able to support you, and that earns your trust. The relationship is important for most racers, and more so for newer karters. Ask lots of questions. It doesn't do any good for anyone to buy the wrong thing and not be racing (and quick) in 3+ years.

4. Smile a lot! That part will be easy most days. When you have one of those tough days, dig in and do it again. We've all had to work through the frustration, but getting fast is SO worth every minute of it.


Andy

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

If you really want to go fast, have lots of money and lots of time, then you might want to get a shifter kart. The maintenance for one of these babies is much higher than the previously mentioned karts/classes. My friend told me he rebuilds his engine after every race. He spends about $25K per season.

Just want to clarify...the above scenario is at the top level of shifter kart racing. At a club level, you can run a stock Honda CR125 and be very competitive at a fraction of the cost. There are guys that have run or is running a stock Honda and in 3 or 4 years of hard driving, they've only paid for fuel and tires.....no rebuilds, no chains, no gears...maybe a set of brake pads in a couple cases. To keep your operating cost low you need to pay attention to the following: lubing the chain after every on-track session, bleeding the brakes after 3 to 4 hours of hard driving and check tightening nuts and bolts frequently.

I would recommend doing a drivers school prior to buying a kart. You could call MRP in South Bend who does a professional job in that department or you could sign up for the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet first karting school to be held on June 21st. Their 9hp karts will be available for rent for those who do not own their own karts and there will be single, 2 and 6 speed karts running in separate groups at the school so you can get a good feel of what level you want to start at.

[Hornswoggler]

Great info! I love it

I definately want to go where the action is, so a popular class would be in my best interest. I live in Washington, IL (right outside Peoria) so weekly trips to CIR might be a lil far, but I know there is an outdoor track in Springfield (http://www.midstatekartclub.com/), which is about 1.25 hours away. Joliet is fairly close (1.5 hours, but thats usually driving my M3 there at the last minute..) and Norway is pretty close too.

Do the shifter karts run on kart tracks or on a full road course?

I might start with some more arrive-n-drives and get more of a feel for it that way. Good idea on the karting driving school.

[Rick]

Great info! I love it

I definately want to go where the action is, so a popular class would be in my best interest. I live in Washington, IL (right outside Peoria) so weekly trips to CIR might be a lil far, but I know there is an outdoor track in Springfield (http://www.midstatekartclub.com/), which is about 1.25 hours away. Joliet is fairly close (1.5 hours, but thats usually driving my M3 there at the last minute..) and Norway is pretty close too.

Do the shifter karts run on kart tracks or on a full road course?

I might start with some more arrive-n-drives and get more of a feel for it that way. Good idea on the karting driving school.

Most of the classes we mentioned run on either full road courses or sprint tracks. It's really a matter of gearing. On the road course, I've been told, you tend to wear out the engine faster because you're always revving it so high. I'm sure brakes and other consumables get used up faster as well. Andy, Les, Martin and I think Phil race or have raced on full sized tracks.

At Norway, the shifter class is almost non-existant. The same goes with DD2 except when Phil's Master Pro Series has a race there. There are 2 races per year at Norway for the MPS.

TAG and HPV are the big classes at Norway and have around 10 entries per weekend.

A good thing about Norway is that they have garages for rent. This way you don't need a tow vehicle and a trailer. The bad news is all the garages are taken. You might be able to work out a deal for storage though.

You're more than welcome to come hang out with me during a race day to see what it's like.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Do the shifter karts run on kart tracks or on a full road course?

Most shifter kart drivers have migrated to the road courses for various reasons. CES hosts a very well attended series drawing around 50 to 60 shifters at their events. I plan to race with them at Grattan, the weekend of June 29th thru July 1st and at BFR August 3rd thru 5th. Rock Island Grand Prix also draws a good number of shifters. there are 4 shifter classes and they're usually maxed out with 30 karts in each class. They host the annual Labor Day weekend street race on the streets of downtown Rock Island IL.

[Hornswoggler]

Andy, where can I get more info on your Arrive-and-drive programs and/or schedule? I would like to arrange a group trip with some friends in the Peoria, IL area. Maybe I should just call? :)

[Rick]

http://www.concepthaulersmotorspeedway.com

FYI: In my opinion, the CIR karts and tracks give a much higher sensation of speed. If you've gone to CIR, you might be disappointed in the sensation of speed you get from the A&D karts at CHMS. But the people at CHMS know a lot about outdoor karting and can definitely answer any questions you may have.

[Martin Lenick]

The A&D karts at CHMS (I've been in the old ones, but not the new ones) are challenging and exciting for a beginner, and to certain extents to more experienced karters. So too are the karts at CIR.

CIR was the first place I raced anything. I was hooked immediately.
I don't know if I'd have become hooked driving A&D at Norway.

Having learned a couple of things (not close to enough) I think the A&D's at CHMS could be more fun than CIR, but the first-time WOW factor is probably higher on the super-tight, continuously barriered CIR tracks.

Also, you must become competitive at CIR if you want to race karts in this region from November throught March.

[peterjank]

Colin,

You are welcome to come out and race with the "Jankovskis GP" group on Monday, June 25. We run three 14 lap qualifiers on Track 3 (the enduro track), followed by a 25 lap final. You will need to arrive and check in by 7:30. Racing starts at 8:00. Cost is $95. Please send me an e-mail if you are interested in racing with us.

[Adam Andrea]

CIR was the first place I raced anything. I was hooked immediately.
I don't know if I'd have become hooked driving A&D at Norway.
I think it has to do with the subliminal effect of the flashing of the blue and yellow barriers as you drive past.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Hey Colin-

Give us a call at 815.496.9196 to set something up. You'll want to talk to Les or Diann.

One of the favorite outings consist's of a practice, 2 heats, and a Feature for $95/driver.

Indoor and Outdoor karting is a little different. We have longer tracks, wider asphalt surfaces, and lot's of run off. That allows top speeds of 48mph. Indoor (CIR) has tighter tracks, with concrete that have less traction. This gives a great experience at slower speeds, allowing it to be run without run off and inside. One isn't better or worse. Just different.

Heck, I we own two outdoor tracks and can be found at indoor tracks in the winter... CIR is one of the best indoor facilities I've been to.


Andy

[Hornswoggler]

I had the opportunity yesterday to drive a 125cc TaG 2-cycle kart and it was a hoot!

The kart is way more capable than I am, lol. Did a 58.01 around Norway.. need to shave about 10 seconds off that. I drove about 15 laps, and for being new to a car of that capability and new to the track, it should be a good baseline to beat my next trip.

Places I felt I left time on the table:
- Turn 1 is a deceptively fast corner. I was overbraking out of panic.. felt like I was going too fast! T1 could be much quicker, I would just have to slow a bit more for T2.
- The banked 180 degree turn scares me. Not knowing the karts limits, it will take time for me to gradually work my way up to this turn.
- I know it sounds silly, but I tend to drive too slow around blind corners. :( (before the esses leading to front straight)
- I need to get on the gas a bit earlier
- Braking was downright heinous (I'm sure you guys are all used to it and adapted... or just dont brake!). I need to have a more gentle touch here.


Couple of questions...

Do all karts vibrate like crazy? Made me appreciate the comforts of sports car racing, lol.

What do you guys think about the CHMP Spec Racer (http://www.jetkarting.com/news/spec_racer) series? I am soon to be 32 years old, and around 172 lbs. CIR karts seem easy, and it would take some practice before I felt competitive in a TaG. I like the price tag on teh spec racer, and figure I would have fun competing in just about anything. I would prefer to build a strong foundation than jump right in over my head, hah.

How does the CHMP spec racer compare to their rental karts? Will they feel slow compared to TaG? (I did kinda like the tag acceleration!). Do they vibrate as much as TaG?

Could I find TaG competitors in the area besides Rick? :p

I am trying to find more info on the JET karting driving academy. Sounds like a lot of fun. Heck, any opportunities I have for arrive-n-drive competition, I am game.

If my max kart purchase budget was $2-3k, could I find competition? If so, in what class and/or kart?

How much is storage rental at CHMP?

Do you guys use gas and brake pedals at the same time?

Thanks for tolerating another round of newb questions! :D

[Rick]

I had the opportunity yesterday to drive a 125cc TaG 2-cycle kart and it was a hoot!

The kart is way more capable than I am, lol. Did a 58.01 around Norway.. need to shave about 10 seconds off that. I drove about 15 laps, and for being new to a car of that capability and new to the track, it should be a good baseline to beat my next trip.

I'm glad you tried it and had fun! Now you understand the craziness of which I speak all the time. :thumbsup: TAG is currently the fastest class at Norway. Don't feel bad if you're scared. I'm still scared at times myself.


Places I felt I left time on the table:
- Turn 1 is a deceptively fast corner. I was overbraking out of panic.. felt like I was going too fast! T1 could be much quicker, I would just have to slow a bit more for T2.Yeah, T1 is crazy. Some guys take that turn flat out with absolutely no brakes.


- The banked 180 degree turn scares me. Not knowing the karts limits, it will take time for me to gradually work my way up to this turn.Ahh the Monza. I love that turn. That is also usually taken flat out.


- I know it sounds silly, but I tend to drive too slow around blind corners. :( (before the esses leading to front straight)
- I need to get on the gas a bit earlier
- Braking was downright heinous (I'm sure you guys are all used to it and adapted... or just dont brake!). I need to have a more gentle touch here.
At least you know what to work on. That's a good start.


Couple of questions...

Do all karts vibrate like crazy? Made me appreciate the comforts of sports car racing, lol.My Lotus Exige S feels like a Cadillac compared to my TAG kart. So no surprise there.


What do you guys think about the CHMP Spec Racer (http://www.jetkarting.com/news/spec_racer) series? I am soon to be 32 years old, and around 172 lbs. CIR karts seem easy, and it would take some practice before I felt competitive in a TaG. I like the price tag on teh spec racer, and figure I would have fun competing in just about anything. I would prefer to build a strong foundation than jump right in over my head, hah. That's a good start. If you can afford it, and want to get more competition, think about HPV. That's the most competitive class at Norway.


How does the CHMP spec racer compare to their rental karts? Will they feel slow compared to TaG? (I did kinda like the tag acceleration!). Do they vibrate as much as TaG? I can't answer that. I've never driven one. But I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it will be no where near the sensation of speed of a TAG kart. It will probably be closer or a litthe higher than the sensation of speed of a CIR (Buffalo Grove) kart/track.

Could I find TaG competitors in the area besides Rick? :pThere are tons at the regional (Rt 66 series ~ 25-30 drivers) and national (WKA Man Cup ~ 30-40 drivers) level. At Norway, there are about 5 guys in Masters and 4-5 guys in Senior on any given race day. I really hope that increases next year. There are a lot of guys on this site that race at Norway.


I am trying to find more info on the JET karting driving academy. Sounds like a lot of fun. Heck, any opportunities I have for arrive-n-drive competition, I am game.

If my max kart purchase budget was $2-3k, could I find competition? If so, in what class and/or kart?You could pick up a good used HPV for that much. For a TAG, I would say $3500-$4000 for a good used one.


How much is storage rental at CHMP?Ask Andy and Les. See jetkarting.com


Do you guys use gas and brake pedals at the same time?Some people do. I transition between the two. So there is some overlap but I generally don't have both down.

Thanks for tolerating another round of newb questions! :DNo problem. Hope to see you out there next year!

Oh and also consider racing in the Peter J event at CIR. That will definitely help you to prepare for the outdoor season next year.

[Jeff Salak]

Collin, welcome to karting. The spec. racer program at Concepts is a good place to start. For the price you cant go wrong. Its good for people who have things to do on Saturday and Sundays, with races on Fridays. It also seems to be a class that doesnt need a huge budget!
I started racing karts last summer. I'm 42yrs old. Started right into Tag. If I was to do it over I would start in HPV class. A little slower and a good place to learn how to drive. Starting out in a Tag, is a little hard on your budget. A good used Tag kart will be in the range of $3500. Cost of up keep on kart will be another $2000-3000 range a year. Thats on the cheep end! I'm saying this cause once you buy kart its far from over! You need spare parts for engine and kart. The first year is always the hardest cause you need to build a trailer full of spare parts. Not sure the cost of an HPV kart and its up keep. Don't think its near the cost of a tag.

Some answers to your questions!
- Spec karts are 8-10 hp a Tag kart is 28hp.
-There is plenty of comp. the economy has lowered numbers in general at events.
-Stick with Jet karting and let them help you out.
-Using gas and brake at same time. Yes people do it, its called trail braking.
-The vibration on Tag was you holding on for dear life!!! LOL!!!
Jeff

[Hornswoggler]

I did a google search on HPV and think I'll pass... :bugeye:

or maybe I'll just get the vaccine first?

Will look into that series a bit more. I think I could adapt to the Tag with a little more practice. its the fast corners that are scary, and (if you are doing it right) they should be just as scary in a 'momentum' kart than a full power one.

Do HPV karts get boring down the straight aways? I guess that would give me a chance to breathe, relax, and look for traffic, lol.

[Rick]

Do HPV karts get boring down the straight aways? I guess that would give me a chance to breathe, relax, and look for traffic, lol.

HPV laptimes are generally about 1-2 seconds slower than TAG on any given day at Norway. But I would not say they are "boring". TAG is actually very fast and quickly becoming one of the most competitive classes in the nation. TAG is usually one of the, if not the, largest classes in national level competition/races. But shifters are still king in terms of outright speed.

[Hornswoggler]

if a decent used TAG setup is around $3,500+, how much does an HPV setup go for? How much HP are those? I assume HPV is faster than the spec series. What is the good chassis/motor to have for that group?

at 172 lbs, would I be in the light or large group?

[rystar]

Collin,
I have been racing outdoor @CHMS for 2 years now. I bought a used HPV and raced it the first year. It was plenty fast. Then I bought a new TAG package last winter as I thought it was a growing class. This past season I raced both. The turnout it TAG Master was poor. We were lucky to have 5 karts out there on a good day. On the other hand the HPV class has at least 10 karts on every race day and 12-15 on a crowded Sat. Next year I plan on racing HPV unless there are a bunch of guys buying TAGs this winter. Your light weight and the hpv will be great for you. I weigh 210 and run at the back third of the pack. The weight is 365 for HPV heavy. If you want to try it out your more than welcome. I am hoping to get a few more practice days during the week @CHMS before winter comes. You should be able to find a used HPV package for 2000-2500.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

Do all karts vibrate like crazy? Made me appreciate the comforts of sports car racing, lol.

The faster the kart, the more the vibration, generally. Leopards shake more than Rotax's do though, as the Rotax is counter balanced.

What do you guys think about the CHMP Spec Racer (http://www.jetkarting.com/news/spec_racer) series? How does the CHMP spec racer compare to their rental karts? Will they feel slow compared to TaG? (I did kinda like the tag acceleration!). Do they vibrate as much as TaG?

The Spec Racer is a class we started for those with lots of desire but a little less budget or time. As fast as a TAG? Heck no, but then a TAG is faster than many racers like running in a pack with. Spec Racers do a LOT of close running. They are 3-4 seconds a lap faster than the rental karts, which makes lifting and braking for turns much more important than the rentals. Overall, a great little package for having fun without breaking the bank or feeling overwhelmed. I wish more racers would learn with less hp than more hp. Vibration is much lower than a TAG.


Could I find TaG competitors in the area besides Rick? :p

There have been lots in the past, but this season numbers have shrunk considerably. High maintenance issues can be solved some with a Rotax, but it is still more intense than many like. Starting with HPV or Spec Racer and running up front there first would be good advice.


I am trying to find more info on the JET karting driving academy.

I do one-on-one instruction in a Rotax here. Call or email me and we can find a time that works best. We can knock time off that 58 for sure with some advice and good technique.


If my max kart purchase budget was $2-3k, could I find competition? If so, in what class and/or kart?

I rarely find a situation where more track time isn't the best way to get fast. I'm selling a HPV on a used chassis this week that is right around the $3000 mark, and could make another package close I think. Spec Racers sell for $1749 brand new, so that one is easy. You will be WAY better off at the end of the season buying the kart that allows you to spend a day a week at the track. If the total budget is $2-3k, that would make Spec Racer an easy choice.

How much is storage rental at CHMP?

We do single kart storage for $50/month, or garage's starting at $1000/year. We can figure something out that works for you.


Do you guys use gas and brake pedals at the same time?

When you run a 47.5 and are looking for the next tenth or two, I'll teach you how. Right now, there is more time to be gained from using all the g's in the corner. It is far easier to upset the kart and lose corner speed than help yourself trail braking. You'll see this in your Driver Academy!:stickpoke:



Call us with anything. Or better yet, stop in and say hi! I was at a wedding on Sunday... I wish I could have shaken your hand.

[Hornswoggler]

Thanks a bunch guys!! great advice. Andy, I know we will get to meet in 2009 for sure!

What do you guys think about HPV heavy vs Yamaha Senior Supercan? Seems like Yamaha Senior Supercan is more popular at 61 Kartway, where HPV heavy is very active at Norway. How different are these two carts?

How much do these karts weight? I can find the class min weight, and I know my weight, but need to know kart weight so I can pick the right weight class.

So, cost of entry to get a kart package, from what I can gather: (let me know if these figures are close or not)
TaG: $4k (used)
HPV: $3k (used)
Spec: $2k (new)

Would I be allowed data acquisition on a Spec Racer? What would be the best way to "sample" a spec racer before I spend the money? I'm heavily leaning towards HPV for the balance of speed and price. Being two hours south (Peoria, IL area), it would be tough to make Friday night spec races (driving up for Saturday events works better for me), which is one concern that keeps me from Spec Racer series.

Some of this is just me thinking out-loud. Thanks for tolerating my neverending questions. :D

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

What do you guys think about HPV heavy vs Yamaha Senior Supercan? Seems like Yamaha Senior Supercan is more popular at 61 Kartway, where HPV heavy is very active at Norway. How different are these two carts?

The kart you use would be virtually identical. 16 hp for the Yamaha vs 21 or so for the HPV is not a big difference. We don't have a very active Supercan field, and our HPV field is around a dozen often. You'd be happier in HPV here.

How much do these karts weight?
Figure around 150 to 170 pounds, depending on chassis and motor package. Usually closer to 170.


So, cost of entry to get a kart package, from what I can gather: (let me know if these figures are close or not)
TaG: $4k (used)
HPV: $3k (used)
Spec: $2k (new)

Pretty close. TAG would be a little more than that for a real nice one, but I've put several packages together in that range.


Would I be allowed data acquisition on a Spec Racer? What would be the best way to "sample" a spec racer before I spend the money?

Data is allowed on the Spec Racer. We control the engine and chassis to make racing equal. Anything you do to make yourself smarter, (data, more practice, academies, etc...) is your gain. Smarter drivers are the biggest 'unfair advantage' on the track.


I'm heavily leaning towards HPV for the balance of speed and price. Being two hours south (Peoria, IL area), it would be tough to make Friday night spec races (driving up for Saturday events works better for me), which is one concern that keeps me from Spec Racer series.

You won't hear me talk down the HPV class. It's a great program with smaller costs for the new or experianced driver.

[Hornswoggler]

Hopefully this spring I'll be ready to buy an HPV kart then. Sounds like a lot of fun!

One more question:

I know tag has electric starters, what about HPV? Can one be fitted? Would be nice if I could be a 1-man team when I go... and manual starter sounds like I'll always need a pit crew. Thoughts?

[Rick]

Collin, many guys actually put their starters on wheels so the can start themselves and just roll the starter away. Also, there are usually guys who will just help start you if you need help.

You would be surprised how many TAG karts are started by an external starter. Many guys have problems with their onboard starters. Just because it's supposed to be Touch And Go doesn't mean it will be.

[MotoBob]

Hey Collin,

It would appear that you are in the same shoes I was in last spring.

I sustained and injury riding motocross and was looking for something a little less risky to replace my need for speed. I happened across CIR over the winter (CIR seems to be the gateway drug), found this site, met the guys posting here, and eventually bought a TaG kart. I was totally clueless. As soon as the weather broke I brought it out to CHMS. Andy and Les spent and exuberant amount of time helping and educating me on the kart and racing.

After 5 practices I felt I could hold my own speed wise. (See on this forum…CHMS, 1st practice, 2nd Practice, 3rd, etc.) I think I was pretty successful, qualifying 3rd in my first race. The next challenge was getting used to a crowd. I ran fourth in my real first race (Route 66 Series). Another driver got into me and I DNF’d about 3 turns from the finish.

I trophied my 2nd race, then sold the kart. Fortunately, or unfortunately, my arm healed up pretty well and I was drawn back to motocross. All-in-all karting was a great experience! As I am about to turn 38 I imagine there will come a time that I will have to hang up motocross gear for good. When I do I will probably be back out there.

You seem to be following a similar path. I would highly recommend getting your feet wet at CHMS. Andy and Les, plus the racers here cut the learning time to a fraction. I went from learning to start a TaG kart to racing in a month and a half.

Thanks again Andy, Les, Rick, Ryan, Roberto, etc!

Be prepared…it is not cheap, but no motorsport is. I think my initial investment was about $5000 for a used kart, stand, and driving gear. Races and even practices have their costs as well. Tires, oil, fuel, parts, and fees add up quick. If you have the means it is worth it. Racing is the greatest!

Have fun!!!:thumbsup:

[rystar]

MotoBob, We miss you out there. I sure hope you stay healthy, but hope to see you sooner than later back out there racing.

Collin, Probably about 75% of the HPV drivers show up by themselves. There are plenty of people to help you get started. You will have to bolt on some weight. I weigh 210 without gear and am about 15-20 lbs overweight. By far the heaviest on the grid. Correction, the weight for hpv heavy is 360. You will fit right in the hpv class.

[Hornswoggler]

I might get to go again this Sunday!!! :thumbsup:

[Rick]

Ryan and I were just there today. Have fun on Sunday!

BTW, there are 8 TAGs sitting in the big community garage and probably another 5-6 TAGS in the separate garages. There are probably at least 10 guys who tow there TAGS back and forth. So that's a total of 23-24 TAGs. Unfortunately only 7-12 (split between two classes) show up and race. I think if you can really handle the TAG speed, I would really try to get you interested in TAG. However, I think a safer and better bet would be HPV. There's always a good sized class in HPV and you'll always have someone to race against. And you'll spend a lot less money. But if you can afford it and want to go faster, please consider TAG! We need more TAG guys.

[Hornswoggler]

Improved to a 56.0 today. Moving in the right direction. Building more trust in the available grip!

Nice meeting you today Andy! Thanks for the great work on that throttle cable. :)

[Hornswoggler]

After putting some thought into what kind of motorsports I want to pursue next year, I might pass on buying a kart and put those efforts into another season of NASA time trials.

Without question, I have a blast everytime I go karting. Very fun motorsport and I will continue doing as much arrive-n-drive as I can. For those who have yet to drive a real racing kart, I highly recommend the experience. It is more difficult than it looks! The acceleration thrill of a 125cc kart is just nuts, and I have hardly explored the grip limits of the racing kart chassis. I still hope to conquer one someday.

I was seriously considering picking up a kart for 2009 for a couple of reasons: 1. it is one of the more cost effective ways to experience wheel-2-wheel racing, and 2. I could build a more diverse foundation in motorsports. Some people may have tons of fun doing the same thing year-in, year-out, but I thought the variety would have been good. Plus, there may have been a few tricks I learn in karting that could someday apply to sports car racing (my eventual goal... at hobby level, of course).

Reasons I am not ready to commit to a karting season? I have a couple...

First, I have a comfort issue with how much the kart vibrates. Call me a wuss, but driving the M3 around track is much more cushy and isolated. I think the kart vibrations is why I pull in after a few laps.. makes it more difficult to concentrate on the task at hand, plus it makes my butt feel kinda funny.

Second is cost. While karting is one of the more reasonable forms of 4-wheel w2w racing, it still requires an investment and costs money to run. If I purchased a chassis for $3k, ran a 15-race season for another $3k (inc. consumables, entry fees, maintenance, repairs, safety equip), add more money for kart storage (possibly towing), and its still a chunk of change. While still do-able, after some calculations, karting doesn't seem as cheap as I would have once hoped. Sure, I can sell the kart after I am done, but that same initial investment could put a roll cage in the M3. I could do 6 NASA TT weekends for $1k each, and break even between the two ($6k for a season of karting vs $6k for a season of TT). I can use 2009 as a transition year to NASA GTS3 by losing about 400 lbs from the car and running TTA (up two classes from TTC I ran in 2008). I can do some prep work for GTS3 throughout the season, and my TTA traqmate baselines should give me a great starting point on what to expect when running GTS3. Well, and getting to spank some EVO's and tango with the C5's should be a lot of fun. :)

Third is people. No, I don't have anything against karting people... quite the opposite is true as everybody I have met has been really nice and helpful. I just don't know as many people at kart events as I would road course events. Plus, if I ran a HPV kart next year, it would require a pit crew to start the kart with external battery and starter. I don't want to be dependant on recruiting a crew member so I can run races or practice. There is some appeal with being able to take care of it all myself with events in the M3.

While I still have some time to make a final decision, I am heavily leanings towards TTA in 2009. I had a great time running TTC in 08, and hope next year can be just as fun and/or competitive.

Plus, who wouldn't want to spank some EVOs?? :D

[Rick]

Collin,

I understand; Karting isn't for everyone. The vibration is from the two stroke engine spinning 16,000+ RPMs bolted on to a bare chassis with a seat connected to it. The vibration will never go away. I have gotten used to it and love it. The speed is also something that has to be considered. Some people cannot handle it. And then there's the safety considerations as well.

Any wheel to wheel racing is going to be expensive. Indoor karting is the cheapest form of wheel to wheel racing I can think of. Outdoor karting is relatively cheap as well. But the thing that attracts me is the outright performance. Where else can you drive something that has the performance of a proper formula car for such a relatively low price?

I also started karting outdoors before I knew anyone and now I know everyone. We all drink beers together after the races now.

It all depends on what you want to do and how much competition you want and how much speed and performance you like. For me, there is nothing out there that can even come close to the performance, competition and relative low cost of true wheel to wheel racing than karting. Where else can you have the possibility of competing with current, past or future formula car drivers? Just look at some of the names at some of the big karting races. You'll see current Indy car drivers, brothers of F1 drivers, etc. There's a reason that these guys still race karts.

If you do choose to go with NASA TT, then I wish you the best of luck. I had also considered doing NASA TT in my Lotus Exige S before. Personally, the Lotus is boring compared to my TAG kart. If you going to go the car route, just go directly to Skip Barber formula cars. If you choose to go the karting route, then don't hesitate to ask for help or advice from me or anyone on this site. I'm sure everyone will be more than willing help you.

Good Luck,

Rick

[Dan]

It was my kart Collin was trying. I have been trying to get him to join me in Spec Miata (with Midwestern Council) or TaG.

Guess I failed!

Dan
SM#33

[Hornswoggler]

lol Dan, not a failure by any stretch. Helped me gain a new appreciation and respect for the sport. I am just too much of a wuss.

If I had the money, I would pursue all of the above. :)

[Rick]

If I had the money, I would pursue all of the above. :)

How true. Unfortunately, money is the limiting factor. I would also race all of the above if I had the money. Isn't it cheaper to race Spec Miata than NASA TT?

Dan, where do you race your TAG? Why don't you guys team up and race in the 100 lapper Halloween race at CHMS this weekend? :thumbsup: A lot of guys on this site will be there.

[Hornswoggler]

How true. Money is the limiting factor. Isn't it cheaper to race Spec Miata than NASA TT?


Depends if you already have the car for it or not. :)

SM would cost me about $8k for a rough one. For time trials, I can use the M3 I already have in the garage. The M3 is street legal (plates, registration, etc) so I drive to the track and back. SM would probably need towed (dont think I can fit a set of tires in a miata, lol).

[Hornswoggler]

Dan, where do you race your TAG? Why don't you guys team up and race in the 100 lapper this weekend? :thumbsup:

Because I am too slow! :bugeye:

[Dan]

Dan, where do you race your TAG?

I haven't ever raced it! Just tested and tuned and practiced so far.

I bought it for some fun on the non Spec Miata race weekends and summer week nights. A friend from work (who came and ran the Skip Barber 3 day at Sebring with me 2 winters ago) wanted to do 'something' in racing...but didn't want to get a road race car. I used to race KT100 Can at CHMS 9-10 years ago...so thought TaG might be a fun toy to have. We bought one each - though he hasn't run his much this summer.

When I get down to consistent times in the 48s I will come and race. I am in the 49/50s right now....too slow to keep up with the pack! It is lots of fun to drive though...I love it.

Spec Miata has kept me pretty busy this year. I have run every Midwestern Council race so far this season. 1 more race to go - this Saturday at BFR....hence no Halloween Race for me.

[Rick]

Because I am too slow! :bugeye:

Yeah but you'll still have a fun time!!

[Rick]

I haven't ever raced it! Just tested and tuned and practiced so far.

I bought it for some fun on the non Spec Miata race weekends and summer week nights. A friend from work (who came and ran the Skip Barber 3 day at Sebring with me 2 winters ago) wanted to do 'something' in racing...but didn't want to get a road race car. I used to race KT100 Can at CHMS 9-10 years ago...so thought TaG might be a fun toy to have. We bought one each - though he hasn't run his much this summer.

When I get down to consistent times in the 48s I will come and race. I am in the 49/50s right now....too slow to keep up with the pack! It is lots of fun to drive though...I love it.

Spec Miata has kept me pretty busy this year. I have run every Midwestern Council race so far this season. 1 more race to go - this Saturday at BFR....hence no Halloween Race for me.

Good luck at BFR! I like that track. How are you doing in the season points?

[Dan]

Good luck at BFR! I like that track. How are you doing in the season points?

Currently 8th out of 31.

(Mostly by running all the races and scoring poorly, but scoring every time...but don't tell anyone!)

[Rick]

8 out of 31 is good. A wise racer once told me "Showing up is 95% of life and success.".

[Dan]

8 out of 31 is good. A wise racer once told me "Showing up is 95% of life and success.".

:)

There is more to come yet....my laptimes have improved a lot this season. Problem is - so have everyone's!

Planning on doing some MC, some NASA and some SCCA next year to visit more tracks throughout the season. NASA enduros look fun too.

Between that and the kart, about every weekend should be a track weekend!

Now we just need a winter plan....someone needs to start Peoria Indoor Racing!

Dan SM#33

[Hornswoggler]

Dan and I should make the trip up to CIR for some of your league events!

[Rick]

Dan and I should make the trip up to CIR for some of your league events!

How's the 29th? --> http://www.chicagoracers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20870

[Hornswoggler]

better late than never... I am signed up for the Driver Academy at Jet karting tomorrow!!!

Weather looks awesome. 80* with zero chance of rain. Can't wait! I am excited and a little nervous at the same time. :bugeye:

[avmaviator]

Awesome Collin, you will definitely enjoy it :-) Andy will show you/teach you a lot.

Lets us know how it went!

[Rick]

So, how did it go?!

[Hornswoggler]

So, how did it go?!

It was awesome, of course!

Drove the spec kart on the smaller track, and rotax on the full track. Was a lot of fun! Andy did an awesome job instructing, highly recommended.

This has me internet shopping for a Rotax now! Maybe next year if I am lucky I can get one. :)