gingerman

[sickmint79]

turn 2 - how do you take it?

turn 4?

turn 5-6?

turn 8-9?

[Mark Hirt]

At some point in time one has to find their own way.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

[
Hot Lap

Starting on the front straight, carry speed up the straight as far as possible, but still treat turn 1 as a classic turn. Do not brake any more than necessary. Turn 1 can be taken very fast. There are some bumps in the braking area and at the turn-in point. You may want to straddle them or move in from the track edge for your turn-in.
Accelerate across the turn 1 apex to a mid-track turn-in point midway through turn 2. Brake slightly, turn in and start early acceleration in the increasing radius right hander. The uphill turn will give you more traction than you will expect. Hit a very late apex and continue accelerating hard toward turn 3. Turn 3 is a constant radius, slightly downhill 140 degree right. Do not late brake here. Set up for strong acceleration across a late apex. Be ready for the car to get light as the track drops away leaving turn 3.
Holding flat, ease to the right edge of the track coming out of turn 3. Ease left to the apex of turn 4 and straight to the right track edge approaching turn 5. Do not lift from the turn-in for 3 until you brake for turn 5.
Novices: As you start out, brake hard along the right edge of the track to slow for turn 5. Turn in and gas for a moment and brake again to slow for turn 6. From center of the bumpers on the right edge of the track, turn in and accelerate hard across a late apex on turn 6. You must get well into the bumpers on the inside of turn 6.
Experienced racers: Carry speed on the 3-5 straight almost to an early apex on turn 5. Trail brake around turn 5 to the right edge of the track to the turn-in point for turn 6. Turn in hard and accelerate across a late apex on turn 6. Novice or expert: If you find yourself on the right bumpers coming out of turn 6, move your turn-in a little further into the turn and be absolutely sure you are getting well into that apex.
Turn 7 is a classic late turn-in, late apex turn, but then you keep sweeping to the right hugging the right edge of the track under full acceleration through turn 8. Hold right longer than you think you should and then cut left for a late apex in turn 9. You cannot make up a lot of lap time here, but you can lose a bunch easily. The trick is to go as slow as you have to, to be on the left track edge under complete control coming out of turn 9, to set up for turn 10.
Turn 10 is the most important on the course. The key is early hard acceleration. Move your turn-in/acceleration point back as far as you can. Be hard on the gas from the time you turn in. Use all the track. Hit a medium-late apex and honk down the 10-11 straight.
Turn 11 is another classic turn and the wide smooth track allows lots of speed through it. The Armco at track-out tries to intimidate. Don't let it. Carry lots of speed and use all the track. The front straight is the longest of the course, but uphill and not quite as fast as the back straight between 10-11.
Start another lap. Remember the key is to carry speed as long as possible on the straights. This makes the corners important in this sequence: 10, 11, 3, 5-6, 2, 1, 7, 9, 8. Refine your driving in this order for the fastest improvement in lap times. Good luck. You will have fun!]

Sickmint79, what kind of car are you driving?

The above was taken off their website. It is a very accurate decription of a fast lap.

I used that exact line except for the bold print. Reason is, driving a 190hp/2500lb '87 BMW 325is, I didn't have to ease over all the way to the right side of the track after turn 3. About mid-track was enough and I could stay flat all the way to the apex of turn 5. I used the 'experienced' description above in that section. It feels a little hairy because from apex of turn 5 to turn in at turn 6, you're using the brakes to control the rotation. At turn in of 6, when the brake is released, you will need to get flat on the throttle immediately or the car will spin. If you get it right, you will be in a 4 wheel drift through the apex up to the point where the uphill exit of 6 compresses the suspension and give you grip right at track out.

The other section I do differently is the turn 8/9 combination. I am flat from 7 through 8 and yes I hold the right longer to hug the inside of 8 but as I unwind the steering, I breathe off the throttle just as the wheel becomes straight, then I quickly but smoothly turn into 9 and just as quickly, roll into the throttle and go flat up to the turn in of 9. I have not tried the entry into 9 as described above, but when I go back I definitely will. It sounds slower than my line going in, but I believe it will be faster at the end of the back staright going into 10, which is more important.

Hope this helps.

[Rick]

At some point in time one has to find their own way.

At some point one, has to be a nice guy. Not everyone is as good at driving as you are Mark. :)

Sickmint79, what kind of car are you driving?

If I remember correctly, he has an STI and a Miata +turbo.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

At some point one has to be a nice guy. Not everyone is as good at driving as you are Mark. :)



If I remember correctly, he has an STI and a Miata +turbo.

Both those cars should do fine running the line on their site but may want to try my line through 3 track out into 4 and turn 9 exit. I think the website description is more geared towards GT1 type cars......3000+lbs with huge hp.

[sickmint79]

i'm driving a 2005 sti (6-speed). i was previously taking all turns (except 4) in 3rd and going into 4th usually at track out. on the straights i'd top out 4th and leave it up there vs. go into 5th because i downshift one gear sloppy enough, let alone 2. i went a month and a half ago to an open track day, this last weekend i went with the bmwcca, i tried some different lines and per the advise of some other sti guys started taking turns in 4th.

turn 1: i try to run over the inside of the birm, i think i take this one pretty well.

turn 2: i am going out to the blend line and running with it on the left side of my car. is this too far out? i try to make a late apex on the 2nd birm. i don't feel like i'm going that hard at the track out so i guess i'm going a bit slow... i take this one in 3rd.

turn 3: i'd like to think i take this one pretty well too, late apex on the birm.

turn 4: i used to just clip this one, but my instructor was trying to have me hang out and turn this area into more of a straight. i go flat out exiting turn 3 but i ease up a bit out here because i get going fast enough that it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable going that fast while turning, thinking i should probably not be lifting up though right? do you guys clip 4 or hang out to the right?

turn 5+6: i used to just skip this turn... i basically just drove along the outside on the right of the track. i went to the middle and by the end of the day started trying to take turn 5. i was also advised to start trail braking for it. then take it to the end of the track out, squeeze the brakes a little beforehand and turn left hard into the apex. i had trouble braking because i thought i should be driving straighter into the track out of 5 but i was usually turning and braking then didn't feel right. i was also apexing 6 usually early. in my fast lap vid i really do this series pretty poorly and don't track out 6 at all. i also try to slightly run over the birm for 6. any advice?

turn 7: apex pretty late, with bmw i felt like i was beginning my turn a lot earlier than previously though. how far out should i be on the track for turn 7? i usually don't have to turn in at the patch, when i approach it my front left is already there and i just turn in. should i be further out in turn 7?

turn 8+9: i was previously holding constant throttle through 8 and 9 with no braking. sometimes i was drifting out a little on 9. i was told to start giving the brakes a little squeeze after completing 8 and before turning in to 9. it did make it easier to hit the apex, i don't know if my overall speed was any better, what do you guys do? the late approach to 9 above sounds interesting, i have been trying to clip the middle of the birm on 9.

turn 10: i go all the way out to the edge of the track, which sounds like the proper thing to do from the above.

turn 11: i didn't use too much track out this weekend, wonder if i have been taking it better in the past? there is a dimple in the track around the apex, should i definately bouncing through it?

my brembos turned to brownbos this weekend, especially the front left one. does this mean i'm braking improperly? i'm just braking harder/faster? combo? the brakes never felt squishy, but i had to add some fluid at home and if the calipers got this hot, i should have some bubbles to bleed out of there right?

i have been advised to trail brake 5, and my instructor was trail braking a lot more turns. i have done all my braking in a straight line, except for the occassional times i did it while in turn, which definately does not make the car happy... with trail braking you are slowly easing off while initiating the turn, so there shouldn't be an issue of the car getting squirrley, right? any advise on practicing this? not something yet in my comfort zone !

here is my video from a month and a half ago: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3310453571606652287
here is my video from last weekend: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8593333986247349710

i think if i had the lines down better my times would come down to more frequent 1:44's, and some 1:43/1:42's as well. car and driver as i recall got a 1:39.5 around gingerman with a stock sti, so i have some making up to do.

[Hornswoggler]

One of the best tools for fine-tuning your line and some techniques is data acq! :-)

with a good DAS, you can compare different lines through the same corner and see which one worked best for you and your car. Or have a hotshoe drive your car and overlay their lap with yours.

[sickmint79]

oy maybe some day not ready for that yet. :) !