24 Hours of Lemons

[Rick]

Jim (aka JAYKAY) has just acquired a 1985 Datsun 300ZX for $255 on Ebay. Jim, Martin, Peter, pmppuss and I are entering the 24 Hours of Lemons (http://www.24hoursoflemons.com)
. We will be racing in Michigan during September 29-30 (http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/events/detroit/). I'm sure it will be quite a hilarious adventure! :evil_lol:

[peterjank]

Count me in. I can't think of a better way to celebrate my birthday!

[Rick]

Ok great! Jim has 2 other drivers in mind so that makes 6. :clap:

[JAYKAY]

I have not yet heard from Mike (evomind on elisetalk), but I hope he is in. We need to come up with a team name and a sweet theme for the car. Some of our thoughts already are:

Scuderia di gabinetto all'aperto (roughly Outhouse racing team)
Scuderia pezzo di merda (roughly Piece Of $hit racing team)

For the car itself, we are thinking of:

St. Dale (black with a red stripe and halo over a 3, "first step to sainthood" on the back)
Good Grief Team Locust (knock-off of Gold Leaf Lotus)

I am open to other suggestions, but to inspire you I have attached the details of our mighty machine.

Jim

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

VERY awesome race! I laughed out loud a couple times reading the rules.

If we did this with karts, we'd have to make the price somwhere around a case of beer...

Good luck guys, and I expect pictures and stories for the prep as much as the race. :evil_lol:


Andy

[CIR-Reed]

I remember reading about this last year. A quote from car and driver magazine including some of the best rules which are not mentioned on the site.

"In the interest of keeping a modicum of civility on the track, grossly aggressive teams are black-flagged and brought into the pits to spin Lamm’s “Wheel of Misfortune.” The pointer comes to rest on such penalties as “Chin Music,” in which an auto-reverse tape player is tie-wrapped into the car, out of reach of the driver, and blasts Mannheim Steamroller’s Christmas, Billy Joel’s Greatest Hits, or Shaun Cassidy’s Born Late. Land on “Train in Vain” or “Stevie Wonder,” and a training wheel, or a cane, is welded to a door. Get stuck on “The Barnyard,” and a sheetmetal silhouette of a pig is welded to the roof. Our favorite is the “Grille of Damocles”: A metal square with spikes aimed at the radiator is welded to the nose of the car, and any front-end contact results in a game-ending punctured radiator. The welder is the lovely, winged Christine Rotolo, a.k.a. the “Arc Angel.”


How long can you deal with the blaring music while you drive?

[Rick]

How long can you deal with the blaring music while you drive?

Can you say "IPod"? :evil_lol:

[JAYKAY]

I spoke with Mike and he is interested. He may be reaching a point where he is too sane for this kind of crap so we better get him while we can.

Jim

[peterjank]

My favorite of the names suggested is "Good Grief Team Locust".

[JAYKAY]

Hi Guys,

I am pulling the forms together and need to get some info from you. Can you please PM me an e-mail and phone number so that I can get the ball rolling with the organizers? Also on the race website (www.24hoursoflemons.com) there is a driver entry form that you will need to fill out and send or fax in after I get the team form in.

I will be picking the car up this Friday, so I should be able to starting tearing it down next week. :kungfu:

Thanks,

Jim Koller

[Martin Lenick]

Jim, I pm'ed my contact info...

Regarding acceptance to the race:
We have to be accepted by the "People's Glorious Race Selection Secretariat".
Unless you have something else up your sleeve, I think a bribe might go a long way. I'll kick in $200 to "Hole in the Wall Racing" charity (or other) as promised "grease" with our entry, and all our nickels if we win.

[Rick]

2.2: Driver Eligibility: All drivers must have a valid US or International driver's license and a valid competition license (club memberships, rally licenses, and instructional licenses are not accepted). The ONLY acceptable competition licenses are: AMP, SCCA, FIA, NASA, NASCAR, CSRG, ARCA, WestCar, SRL, Legends/600, USAC, CASA, BCRA, BBORR, NCMA, MMRA, Barber Comp, CRA, ICSCC, HMSA, HSR, and SVRA. If you don't have one of these, you'll need to cough up for either an AMP Competition Permit (http://p10.hostingprod.com/@24hoursoflemons.com/AMPCompADULT.pdf) ($50) or a NASCAR Competition License ($90). Either credential is valid for the full calendar year and can be purchased from AMP in advance. (A little while after your team is officially accepted, the Team Captain will receive the appropriate applications in the mail.)

I never applied for my SCCA competition license after Jim Russell. I hope it's not too late. I think the only person on the team with a valid and current competition license is Peter. We'll need to do something about that. The AMP Competition Permit seems to be specifically for the track in California.

[Martin Lenick]

I have not yet heard from Mike (evomind on elisetalk), but I hope he is in. We need to come up with a team name and a sweet theme for the car. Some of our thoughts already are:

Scuderia di gabinetto all'aperto (roughly Outhouse racing team)
Scuderia pezzo di merda (roughly Piece Of $hit racing team)

For the car itself, we are thinking of:

St. Dale (black with a red stripe and halo over a 3, "first step to sainthood" on the back)
Good Grief Team Locust (knock-off of Gold Leaf Lotus)

I am open to other suggestions, but to inspire you I have attached the details of our mighty machine.

Jim

After looking at the names of the most recent entrants, it seems most are far less cerebral. Keep in mind the "Peoples Choice Award" and that "People", en-masse, are stupid.

How about:
with regard to the cost:
"50,000-Cent Racing"
"50k-Cent Racing"
or "Fiddy K Racing"
(theme song for above, "Shave and Hair-cut... fiddy cent"

with regard to the purse (paid in canvas bags of nickels):
for a "Fist Full of Nickels"
"Nickel Bag Racing"

for no particular reason:
"Team Debris"
"Spy vs Spy"
"Clueless by Proximity"
"Where's Waldo? Racing"
"itscuzyurlytr"
"Sasquatch Carbon Footprint"





too bad it's not a Ford: "Ford of Damocles"

[Rick]

"Fiddy K Racing" :increment::iamwithstupid: :clap:

[JAYKAY]

I never applied for my SCCA competition license after Jim Russell. I hope it's not too late. I think the only person on the team with a valid and current competition license is Peter. We'll need to do something about that. The AMP Competition Permit seems to be specifically for the track in California.

I sent Jay Lamm (the organizer of this catastrophe) an e-mail yesterday asking what we should do about licensing and he said that after the selections are made, he will send out information about what licenses can be bought. He had mentioned a NASCAR competition license before and I think that is still a valid approach. All you need is $90 and a pulse (or a doctor willing to atest that you have one).

[JAYKAY]

Keep in mind the "Peoples Choice Award" and that "People", en-masse, are stupid.


No truer words were ever spoken. I got the idea for the Lotus knock-off form an entry last year called Eccure Ecrappe who ran a V-dub painted up like a D-type Ecurre Ecrosse Jaguar. I do like the nickels concept though, how about "For a Few Nickels More". Don't forget that we can always call it a Datsun, as in "Dat-sun awful heap".

[Rick]

How about "Fiddy Lateral Gz Racing"? :stickpoke:

[Martin Lenick]

how about "For a Few Nickels More".

I could put in a loud-speaker hooked to a tape player looping
"ahh-yyy-ahh-yyy-ahhhh.....wah-wah-wah....":lol:

[JAYKAY]

I really think the car should be painted to look like a classic racer, whichever seems best. We could the the Gold Leaf Colors, the John Player Special, the original Honda "Rising Sun", the 917 Pig, Marlboro Penske, Jagermeister, or any other that strikes a chord. Thoughts?

[Martin Lenick]

I really think the car should be painted to look like a classic racer, whichever seems best. We could the the Gold Leaf Colors, the John Player Special, the original Honda "Rising Sun", the 917 Pig, Marlboro Penske, Jagermeister, or any other that strikes a chord. Thoughts?

My helmet has been at RazorImage for the last 18 months, waiting for me to decide on a design.... I should sit this one out.

[Rick]

I really think the car should be painted to look like a classic racer, whichever seems best. We could the the Gold Leaf Colors, the John Player Special, the original Honda "Rising Sun", the 917 Pig, Marlboro Penske, Jagermeister, or any other that strikes a chord. Thoughts?

I vote for JPS.

[Adam Andrea]

I could put in a loud-speaker hooked to a tape player looping
"ahh-yyy-ahh-yyy-ahhhh.....wah-wah-wah....":lol:
I'm trying to figure out what song you're talking about, if any, and the closest thing I can think of is Return to Innocence by Enigma (the one with that Native American chanting). Am I right? Do I win a prize?

[JAYKAY]

I'm trying to figure out what song you're talking about, if any, and the closest thing I can think of is Return to Innocence by Enigma (the one with that Native American chanting). Am I right? Do I win a prize?

I think it is actually the whistling hook from "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" with Clint Eastwood.

Since the two Lotus themes were mentioned, I flipped a coin and it came up Good Grief Team Locust, so the car will be painted up like Rindt's World's Champ (hopefully we will have a safer race). I will see if I can get some door decals made up to look like the sponsorship logos and I will rattle-can the car red, white and gold when we get it back. We should definately sticker the car heavly as well. I attached a couple of pictures to show the idea.

Jim

[peterjank]

Excellent! May not win a prize from the fan base, but will probably get us mentioned in Car & Driver and/or Road & Track.

[Martin Lenick]

Cool!!!

Can we still blast Morricone's theme music to Sergio Leone's "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly"? :uhoh:

[JAYKAY]

Cool!!!

Can we still blast Morricone's theme music to Sergio Leone's "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly"? :uhoh:


Of course, I do that with all of my cars...

[Rick]

Cool!!!

Can we still blast Morricone's theme music to Sergio Leone's "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly"? :uhoh:

You gave up on the Gangsta Rap theme so quickly?! :frown:

[Martin Lenick]

Of course, I do that with all of my cars...
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Rick, my gangsta-rap ideas came late that evening :drinking:

[pmpnuss]

Where areyou going to get the safety requirements installed? If any help is needed I am willing to help prep the car for competition or :takecover: demolition which ever comes first.

[Rick]

:clap: pmpnuss has joined the team as a mechanic! So we'll have at least one person who is competent working on cars at the race. :evil_lol:

A reminder to all the drivers: You must have a nomex suit, gloves, helmet and shoes.

[Rick]

Where areyou going to get the safety requirements installed? If any help is needed I am willing to help prep the car for competition or :takecover: demolition which ever comes first.

We're planning on installing a rollcage, fuel cell, 5 or 6 pt harness, racing seat and a fire extinguisher. I'm not sure if brakes and tires fall under safety items.

[pmpnuss]

Tires must be in decent shape no cords sticking out. Brakes shouldn't be accesively worn. I can look the car over and possible fix before the race if you are :evil_lol: interested.

[Rick]

4.2: Safety Equipment DOES NOT Count Toward $500 Total: Safety equipment described in Section 3 DOES NOT count toward the $500 total. There is NO LIMIT on safety-equipment spending. Tires, wheels, and brake components are also considered safety equipment and DO NOT count toward the $500 total. While not mandatory, additional safety items such as fuel cells and plumbed fire suppression systems are highly recommended and DO NOT count toward the $500 total.I guess we can go all out on brakes, wheels and tires. :evil_lol:

So.... here's what the have at TireRack:

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?&make=Brembo&model=Replacement+Rotor&group=Replacement+Rotor&autoMake=Nissan&autoModel=300ZX&autoYear=1985&autoModClar=&perfCode=P

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?&make=Hawk&model=HP+Plus+Race+brake+pads&group=HP+Plus+Race+brake+pads&autoMake=Nissan&autoModel=300ZX&autoYear=1985&autoModClar=&perfCode=A

2.3: Tire Eligibility: DOT-approved street tires only, minimum treadwear rating 190; no exceptions.

I searched for tires using the OEM size and found a very small selection. There are more tires for 225/45 R15.

We should probably get an extra set (or 2) of wheels with tires mounted on them.

[Rick]

I think we should also invest in a really big radiator and fan unit.

[pmpnuss]

The brakes are fine I don't know about the radiator and fan. What we should do is hook up the fan manually to the battery or on a switch. What do they say about performance products?

[Rick]

The brakes are fine I don't know about the radiator and fan. What we should do is hook up the fan manually to the battery or on a switch.

I was thinking that a better fan/radiator might help deal with the heat that builds up when running for 24 hours. But you would know better than I would.

What do they say about performance products?The whole car + preparations must be $500 or less. Considering we bought the car for $255, we have $245 left for performance parts. I'm guessing we could buy an intake and put on a straight pipe for that much.

[pmpnuss]

We can make our own intake and exhaust cheaper. I see your point with the fan and radiator I would sugest realy good synthetic oil like royal purple. What do they say about fluid changes? We can run coolant with additives to make it run cooler also run the heater in the car and reroute the ducts out of the car.:hum:

[JAYKAY]

After 26 straight hours in a truck, the car is back here. :lol:

I will start working on / cleaning it tomorrow and see what I can do about getting a temporary tire to replace the right rear which leaks.

As for the rules, we can not add anything to the coolant system and have to run straight water. Bypassing the fan makes sense, and the intake will make a bid difference, the stock one looks very restrictive. Some of the Nissan boards mention using Pathfinder exhaust manifolds in place of the stock ones for better air flow as well. Since they are a Nissan part, I am sure the judges will not notice.

Jim

[Rick]

How does it run? Have you driven it yet?

[JAYKAY]

How does it run? Have you driven it yet?

It runs fine, but I have to jump it since the battery terminals are corroded. I drove it around the parking lot out there and it seems to drive normally, but it has a leaking tire. The floors have terminal cancer behind the seats, but I think that the cage gets welded into the package tray area, otherwise I will need to have somebody patch the floor as well. I will begin the hillbilly engineering in about an hour, so I will have a better idea of what this will take shortly.

Jim

[pmpnuss]

Are you going to gut the car completely? The cage usually goes welded to the frame or structural suport. what about removing a/c and other not needed items in engine compartment? Is the car stick or manual?

[Rick]

Are you going to gut the car completely? The cage usually goes welded to the frame or structural suport.

Good point.

what about removing a/c and other not needed items in engine compartment? Good idea.

Is the car stick or manual?:confused: Aren't those the same? The answer is "yes" and "yes".

[JAYKAY]

The plan is to take out everything that is not welded in and maybe even some things that are :whistle:. I started gutting the car today, which will take too long since the interior is mostly out anyway.

I have some people from a speed shop looking into prefab cages and seats. We are going to need a seat that is adjustable since there are some serious size differences in the driver line-up. I think that a good solid aluminum )Kirkey) seat will be the best balance of cost, adjustability and safety, but if anybody has any thoughts on the subject please let me know. As for who will install the cage, I am open to suggestions. I would prefer somebody that could come here and do it, unless we have some way to trailer this heap to a shop since it is not licensed.

Since the car had no freon in it, I just yanked the A/C compressor and the associated brackets. I will see if I can get the evap and heater core, but I may need some extra hands for those two. Would you believe that this old POS does not use a serpentine belt? It still uses V-belts:puke: so it still has a mechanical fan. We can definately save some power there as well as some weight. Next up is to take out all the intake plumbing and crap. This car has the worst intake tract I have ever seen. It must be 3-4 feet long and full of bends, baffles, and restrictors.

I am not sure that 14s will fit in place of the stock 15s, but if they will I think that the shorter wheel/tire combo will be an improvement for getting this tub out of the corners. I was thinking of asking around at some of the yards if they would be interested in taking a set of alloy wheels in exchange for some smaller steelies, so I will let you know what I hear.

Jim

[peterjank]

An aluminum Kirkey seat sounds good to me. Probably want one of their road race seats with the tall side supports rather than a drag race seat.

I assume the seat is considered a safety item so it is excluded from the $500 expenditure limit?

[pmpnuss]

Ripp it all off!!! the lighter the better. find out what kinf of gearing the vehicle has to see if the smaller wheels will actualy give you any advantage. get an electric fan from the junk yard as well we can hook it up manually to a switch. Also gut the doors alot of weight is in the window track and windows. Do the rules say any thing about glass? :evil_lol:

[Adam Andrea]

Ripp it all off!!! the lighter the better. find out what kinf of gearing the vehicle has to see if the smaller wheels will actualy give you any advantage. get an electric fan from the junk yard as well we can hook it up manually to a switch. Also gut the doors alot of weight is in the window track and windows. Do the rules say any thing about glass? :evil_lol:
The aerodynamic effect of removing the windows is probably not worth it.

[peterjank]

Hi Adam,

Removing the glass and replacing with chicken wire would be a good safety precaution in addition to providing additional cooling for the driver. On a quarter mile track, the aero impact should be minimal.

[Adam Andrea]

I didn't realize it was just a quarter mile track.

[Rick]

Victor and I went over to Jim's yesterday and looked over the car. It starts up and it runs. We'll definitely need to set aside a budget for air freshner. I think something must have died and decomposed inside the car.

Victor and I are going back to Jim's on Tuesday to check out the brakes and do some other work on the car.

[Rick]

Here's the url for the track:

http://www.arcaracing.com/content/view/200/91/

Here's an aerial shot of the track:

http://www.arcaracing.com/images/stories/Tracks/flatrockfromabove2-1.jpg

[Rick]

Racing Seat: $700
Sliding Rails for Racing Seat: $200
Rollcage: $700
Fuel Cell: $200
Welding Labor: $300
Brake Pads: $200
2 Sets of Tires: $1500
Extra set of wheels: $200
Fire Extinguisher: $200

Total for safety equipment: $4200 :hmm:

Please adjust any numbers if you guys feel they are incorrect.

[pmpnuss]

How are they going to run the race. I can see how they can use both banks. are they going to put up barracades between the figure 8?

[Adam Andrea]

How are they going to run the race. I can see how they can use both banks. are they going to put up barracades between the figure 8?
I think they should just run the traditional figure 8. If there's an odd number of cars, you might just stand a chance!

[peterjank]

Hi Rick,

The numbers look reasonable to me. We are splitting this 5 ways correct?

[Rick]

Hi Rick,

The numbers look reasonable to me. We are splitting this 5 ways correct?

:) The costs will be split by the 6 drivers.

The six drivers are:

1. Jim
2. Rick
3. Martin
4. Peter
5. Mike
6. Reed

Our chief mechanic, Victor, will also be joining us in Flat Rock, MI. I think we have other crew members as well. If anyone wants to volunteer as a crew member let us know! We need someone to manage the alcohol supplies.

Note: We still haven't received confirmation on whether or not our application has been accepted. We should receive that within the next week. So we're not going to dump any substantial money or labor into it prior to receiving our confirmation.

I forgot to add costs of fuel and fuel jugs to the budget. We'll probably need 20 gallons on reserve in fuel jugs.

[peterjank]

I have two 5 gallon fuel jugs that I can bring.

[CIR-Reed]

You can get a good seat and sliding rails for around $400. Tracks for this seat are available for around $120 I think:

http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/4/sfID2/29/manufacturerID/6/productID/2134

I have already left a message for a friend of mine asking for a couple sets of tires. He has been extremely good to me in the past and might be willing to do something for this race. What is the tire rule? They have to be DOT legal?

What about the cost of getting the car there? Or, the cost of disposing of the car if it is thrashed.

What about a spares package? It would be extremely wise to purchase some control arms and things to put on when the regular ones get bent. It could be a 15 minute repair that puts you back in the race.

What type of brakes are you planning on using? For an endurance race it would probably be beneficial to use some brakes that are a little bigger, heavier, and some huge pads. The idea is to get everything to last the entire time. I guess they run this race in two segments so you really just need the parts to last for one segment and then I guess you could replace the pads and rotors an bleed the brakes. The other smart thing to have would be spare calipers. You could have the calipers sitting ready to go and replace them if any need it after the first segment. Does anybody know how to rebuild brake calipers? I can do that if you need it done. It would be a good idea. Are you going to pull the gear box apart and rebuild it before the race? I can do that. Are you going to pull the engine out and rebuild it? It wouldn't hurt to at the very least put some new rings in it and check everything out. Not to increase power (which decreases longevity) but to make sure things will last.

Whats the game plan here guys?

[CIR-Reed]

I forgot to mention. Do all of the drivers have microphones in their helmets? Communication for a thing like this would be HUGE. Everybody should have their helmets wired and a radio system should be purchased or borrowed for the race.

[CIR-Reed]

I think they should just run the traditional figure 8. If there's an odd number of cars, you might just stand a chance!


I think they use one of the straights, both "nascar" corners and then you come into the infield on only one side.

I wonder if you could do it without shifting? If you could manage to stay in one gear the whole time it would make the gearbox much more likely to last the whole race.

[Rick]

I forgot to mention. Do all of the drivers have microphones in their helmets? Communication for a thing like this would be HUGE. Everybody should have their helmets wired and a radio system should be purchased or borrowed for the race.

We were planning on having something for the 24 Hour Endurance Karting race. I think Peter and Greg have already tried it out. Martin, Dave, Kim and I still need to get the radios installed. So basically Martin and I plan on having radios. I'm not sure if Mike or Jim would invest in radios because I don't think they would use them that much.

But I do think radio communications is important. Perhaps it could be as easy as using a CB radio?

[Rick]

You can get a good seat and sliding rails for around $400. Tracks for this seat are available for around $120 I think:

http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/4/sfID2/29/manufacturerID/6/productID/2134



I agree that cheaper is better.

I have already left a message for a friend of mine asking for a couple sets of tires. He has been extremely good to me in the past and might be willing to do something for this race. What is the tire rule? They have to be DOT legal? 180 tread wear minimum.

What about the cost of getting the car there? Or, the cost of disposing of the car if it is thrashed.Peter has a trailer. Jim rented a trailer. I'm pretty sure we can handle getting the car there. We'll can just pitch in for the fuel and trailer fee.

What about a spares package? It would be extremely wise to purchase some control arms and things to put on when the regular ones get bent. It could be a 15 minute repair that puts you back in the race.I agree. Someone has to go to the junkyard and shop for these parts.

What type of brakes are you planning on using? For an endurance race it would probably be beneficial to use some brakes that are a little bigger, heavier, and some huge pads. The idea is to get everything to last the entire time. I guess they run this race in two segments so you really just need the parts to last for one segment and then I guess you could replace the pads and rotors an bleed the brakes. The other smart thing to have would be spare calipers. You could have the calipers sitting ready to go and replace them if any need it after the first segment. Does anybody know how to rebuild brake calipers? I can do that if you need it done. It would be a good idea. Are you going to pull the gear box apart and rebuild it before the race? I can do that. Are you going to pull the engine out and rebuild it? It wouldn't hurt to at the very least put some new rings in it and check everything out. Not to increase power (which decreases longevity) but to make sure things will last.I've been pushing for brakes as well. A full blown race caliper + rotor will probably be out of our budgets. I don't feel like spending $5000 on a completely new brake system. Most of the guys I talked too were leaning towards new or resurfaced rotors and an endurance racing compound pad (Pagid Orange?).

Whats the game plan here guys?Kick ass and win. :kungfu::evil_lol:

Seriously... I think we have one of the strongest cars in terms of power and handling. Our primary concern should be to just make sure that the thing lasts until the end. Remember a Toyota Tercel won last time. We also have to drive and avoid too much contact. Destroying the car will surely end the race.

[CIR-Reed]

I can get the radios, that isn't the issue. You just have to make sure everybody has the correct mic in their helmet.

[Rick]

So are you in? :confused: Or are you just going to sponsor us? :)

[Rick]

We have just received official acceptance and confirmation for our application to the 24 Hours of Lemons. :clap:

[JAYKAY]

We have just received official acceptance and confirmation for our application to the 24 Hours of Lemons. :clap:

Yep, I came across mine this morning in the 1000 or so e-mails I got when I was on vacation. :nascar:

[CIR-Reed]

Alright, now we need to make some decisions on stuff so we can begin checking prices, comparing, ordering, returning, re checking prices, re purchasing......

I also talked to an ex employee of mine who works at a junk yard. He says that he has two of this particular car in stock and would make me an excellent deal on some parts. So what parts do we want? I am thinking we need:

Wheels
Brake calipers
contol arms

Anything else?

[Rick]

Victor, Jim and I plan on taking a good look at the car tomorrow at around 7pm. We'll have a better idea then. You should come out and join us. :)

[Martin Lenick]

We have just received official acceptance and confirmation for our application to the 24 Hours of Lemons. :clap:
:clap::clap: Please, all of you, don't hesitate to tell me what you need from me. :clap::clap:

[CIR-Reed]

I need $1000 cash right away. I'll be up in a minute...

[Rick]

:clap::clap: Please, all of you, don't hesitate to tell me what you need from me. :clap::clap:

1. 4 cases of Heineken :whistle:
2. 2 bottles of scotch :whistle:
3. Get your back surgery and start racing karts again :evil_lol:
4. A prototype of that brake pressure sensor for my kart :)
5. A promise in writing that you won't try any acrobatic stunts with the 300ZX. :whistle:

[Martin Lenick]

Sorry, Reed, no $1000 to you:frown:

1. 4 cases of Heineken :whistle:
2. 2 bottles of scotch :whistle:
3. Get your back surgery and start racing karts again :evil_lol:
4. A prototype of that brake pressure sensor for my kart :)
5. A promise in writing that you won't try any acrobatic stunts with the 300Z. :whistle:
1. Got it.
2. Got it.
3. Don't need it. Back to CIR mid August; outdoor beginning of September.
4. I'll start working on it again. (for those that don't know, it's to bring brake pressure into a spare thermocouple input on the E-box/M4 system)
5. Here it is in writing: I, Martin Lenick, being of sound mind, promise not to "try" any acrobatic stunts with the 300Z.

I don't think that will hold up in court.:cwm27:

[Rick]

We should all get together and discuss plans for the car and the race. The race is about 6 weeks away. Reed prefers Friday evening. I am flexible on time and day. Please respond with when you are available to meet.

[Martin Lenick]

Friday evening... I'm there. Just tell me where there is and what time.

[Rick]

Victor, Jim and I met yesterday and looked over the car again. Victor and Jim stripped some pieces off of it while I drank a few beers. :uhoh::) The body is rusted really badly. We had problems getting it off the ground with the jack. We were afraid the jack might go through the floor. :hum: We (mainly Victor and Jim) also stripped some stuff from the car and cut the muffler off. The brakes pads have some material left. Victor called Autozone and priced out the rotors. The rotors are $80 each. The current tires are 215/60R15 (not really a popular size for performance tires). Maybe we should go to 225/50R15. The car is not insured and can't be driven on public roads. We'll need to trailer it around.

The most urgent matter is the roll cage. Considering we have 7 weeks (less if we actually want to practice) to install one and it might take 3-4 weeks to actually get one, we need to purchase one ASAP. And we need to start pricing out installation immediately so we can schedule it in time.

The one we are currently looking at is the Autopower Industries 'U WELD' (part #60120C) (http://www.autopowerindustries.com/applicationlist.asp) roll cage. If anyone can source it for cheaper than what is listed on http://www.autopowerindustries.com/pricelist.asp contact Jim about it today before he orders it.

Jim, Reed and Peter all have expressed that they know people who can do the installation of the roll cage. Please price it out soon and have that information ready ASAP. We'll probably go with the cheapest option and we'll probably need to schedule it soon.

The racing seat is probably the second most urgent item. Without this item, we cannot test drive the car at speed. The stock seats are not actually fixed to the car. Reed said he can get a really good deal on a seat and rails. The seat, rails and 6pt harness should probably be sourced soon.

Jim and Victor will be posting a list of parts that we would like to have later today. At our meeting next Friday (August 3rd), we'll discuss the budget and then prioritize the list. Once we have done that, it will be a matter of seeing who can source each of the items for the least cost.

I think it would also be a good idea to plan to get the car on a track for testing ASAP. No one has driven this car for more than a block yet. We need to find out:

1. Will it fall apart?
2. How does it handle?
3. How are the brakes?
3. Are there any other problems that were not discovered in the 1 block test drive?

If the car can't last through a test session, chances are it won't last 24 hours. Considering 2 of our team members are members of Autobahn, this shouldn't be that difficult to do. I think we should do this very soon (even prior to roll cage installation) just to see what the car feels like and what it needs. And I think this should be done again after we've installed everything.

Prior to our gathering on Friday August 3rd, anyone who wants to should have come up with a list of parts and/or work that they think we need for the car. That list should be distributed to all the other team members prior to Friday. On Friday we should not be coming up with a list. We should be selecting items off the lists and choosing what needs to be done and how much we are all willing to spend and who's going to do it. We should also probably set up a schedule on when to do everything.

If anyone gets injured prior to the race, or for any reason cannot drive during the race, Victor will be the backup driver and take that spot.

Does anyone think we can get Scott Speed to come drive for our team?

[evomind]

evomind is in da house.....
sorry for coming to the party late....

[Mark Hirt]

We had problems getting it off the ground with the jack. We were afraid the jack might go through the floor. :hum:

The "floor" is never a correct jack point

[JAYKAY]

evomind is in da house.....
sorry for coming to the party late....


Hey Mike, good to see you here.

Alrighty everybody, I did some searching to see how much our "$255 car" is going to cost, and here is what I am seeing, roughly:

Cage: $850 from Autopower
Cage Installation: ???
Fuel Cell: Jegs 555-15335 15-gal Aluminum w/ Sender $249.99
Seat w/ rails: ???
Harness: ???
Brake Rotors (Front): Napa BA0802144 $41.99 each
Brake Pads (Front): Napa SSSS7171X $43.69 pair
Brake Pads (Rear): Napa BA0881245C $38.99 pair
Front Springs: ??? not on website
Rear Springs: Napa NCP2775400 $61.59 pair
Ball Joints: Napa NCP2601459 $43.29 each
Steering Rack (Salvage): ???
Spare Wheels (Salvage): ???
Tires: ???


All of the Napa junk adds up to $314.83 most of which falls under the "Safety" category. The steering rack on our car has some wetness on it, so if we can find a better one in the boneyard, I say we grab it. As for the fuel cell, as much as I want to run one it means having to do a new fuel pump and lines which can get expensive fast since the car is injected. If you have any other thoughts on the costs, or sources for parts let me know.

Jim

[Rick]

evomind is in da house.....
sorry for coming to the party late....

:welcome: Mike

Do you want to sell us your Z06 for $500? :evil_lol:

[evomind]

:welcome: Mike

Do you want to sell us your Z06 for $500? :evil_lol:

that hunk of junk??
how abt your exige s??
:)

[JAYKAY]

that hunk of junk??
how abt your exige s??
:)

Hey Mike, if you think the Z06 is a piece, I have an offer for you. If Rick doesn't want to part with the S, I could sell you my Elise, but you would only be able to drive it to the dealer. I have spent more time in German cars while I have owned the Elise than I did when I owned a Bimmer. :takecover:

[evomind]

haha....
im sorry abt your elise woes, jim.....
itll get sorted out one way or another....

[JAYKAY]

I just ordered the cage from Autopower. It was $829 plus $95 rush handling, plus $125 shipping for a total of $1049.95. It should be here in three weeks, which is as fast as they can get it here without air freight. You don't even want to know how much air freight was...

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

I would vote to go the fuel cell route and do they make one bigger than 15 gallons? Longer stints with less pit stops is always a good thing.

If everybody is ok with:

This seat:
http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/4/sfID2/29/manufacturerID/6/productID/2050

and

This Harness:
http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/7/sfID2/65/manufacturerID/84/productID/57

I will order them in the next couple of days with the seat rails. It is an 85 naturally aspirated 300Z correct?

I have a connection with Lee Auto Parts as well so let me check on the brake components before we purchase any. Have the brake calipers been rebuilt? I can order the rebuild kits as well and rebuild them.

Does Friday the 3rd work for everybody to get together?

[CIR-Reed]

I forgot to include steel braided brake lines in the other post. Does it have those on it already or should we get some?

[evomind]

ill have to check on aug 3rd. I think I have a playoff game hat night. not sure what time, ill check tomorrow. depending on how late u guys hang out, I'm good till abt 4am.
;)

I doubt the car already has steel braided brake lines, but I don't know...

sorry I can't make CIR tonight guys, but I DID have late notice..

lata!

[Rick]

I would vote to go the fuel cell route and do they make one bigger than 15 gallons? Longer stints with less pit stops is always a good thing.

If everybody is ok with:

This seat:
http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/4/sfID2/29/manufacturerID/6/productID/2050

and

This Harness:
http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/7/sfID2/65/manufacturerID/84/productID/57

I will order them in the next couple of days with the seat rails. It is an 85 naturally aspirated 300Z correct?

I have a connection with Lee Auto Parts as well so let me check on the brake components before we purchase any. Have the brake calipers been rebuilt? I can order the rebuild kits as well and rebuild them.

I'm sure that seat will be as good as any. What's the cost on the items after your discount?

[CIR-Reed]

I think I can get the stuff for 30%ish off.

[Rick]

This team has some good ideas.

http://www.teambluegoose.com/

I like what they did with the suspension and camber. :cwm27:

[pmpnuss]

Wow all that for 500 bucks. come on what are they not saying. Take those guysy out first:evil_lol: then the rest.

[pmpnuss]

The rotors use an antique style servicable wheel bearing and race. If available at the junk yard a spare set would be helpfull also servicing the old ones with synthetic grease. full synthetic oils in the entire car

[Rick]

http://z31.com/mods/

[Rick]

I talked to Jim and he said it's ok if we all meet at his place on Friday. Everyone bring either some type of meat or some type of alcohol. Guess what I'm bringing :evil_lol:. Wouldn't it be funny if everyone brought alcohol? So far it looks like Martin, Mike, Reed, Jim, Jayme, Victor, Vicki and I will be there. Peter will be in Arizona racing in the IKWC and won't be able to join us. Please confirm with Jim or myself on whether or not you will be there and what time you will be there. Jim can give you the address and directions.

[CIR-Reed]

I will definitely be there. Martin and I are going to Northstar in the morning so I can try and talk him into lots of cool stuff that he really needs.

What time is everybody meeting? Hopefully while there is still some day light so we can take a good look at the car.

[evomind]

ill be by.

[evomind]

oops......im sorry, looks like i cant make friday....
i have to play in my softball league....
sorry guys...

[Rick]

On a side note, I think that it would be beneficial for our team to compete in the Car Club Challenge 300 lap endurance race at CIR on Aug 26th. A good team would be Martin, Jim and Mike. This would be a good warm up for the 24 hours of Lemons. What do you guys think? I would do it, but unfortunately I will be in Calgary that weekend. Peter already has a team.

[pmpnuss]

Ill be there on friday. let me ask the dumb question are wives invited or allowed. I ask this to avoid the "we dont do things together" speech.

[JAYKAY]

Ill be there on friday. let me ask the dumb question are wives invited or allowed. I ask this to avoid the "we dont do things together" speech.

Well...

I am an inclusive kind of guy so I would never say that she is banned. That said, I am not sure that Jayme will be there so if she is the only one, that might leave her with eight or so guys eatin', drinkin', burpin', fartin' and smokin' (while talking cars). If that is her idea of a good time, God bless you both.

I will throw it open and ask; Is anybody else planning on bringing their spouse / designated driver?

Jim

[pmpnuss]

designated driver sounds good or maybe ill just have her drop me off

[Rick]

Well...

I am an inclusive kind of guy so I would never say that she is banned. That said, I am not sure that Jayme will be there so if she is the only one, that might leave her with eight or so guys eatin', drinkin', burpin', fartin' and smokin' (while talking cars). If that is her idea of a good time, God bless you both.

Don't forget this: :puke:<---- Martin will be doing that

I will throw it open and ask; Is anybody else planning on bringing their spouse / designated driver?

I convinced Vicki to stop by... but if Jayme won't be there then I guess she won't want to hang out with all the farting, burping and drunk guys.

[pmpnuss]

if your wife is going then ill take my wife if not she can drop me off and pick me up she doesn't mind all the guy sound effects

[Rick]

if your wife is going then ill take my wife if not she can drop me off and pick me up she doesn't mind all the guy sound effects

Vicki's probably not going (90%).

[JAYKAY]

I got hold of Jayme, and her plans are for the following weekend. She will be there, so if other spouses want to come hang out she will be there.

Jim

[Rick]

Ok, Vicki will be stopping by then.

[pmpnuss]

funny how woman change their minds:evil_lol:

[CIR-Reed]

Women changing their minds?

Wait till the 6 of us guys get together and have to make decisions about the car!

[pmpnuss]

we will decide faster then my wife deciding what to wear. Men think logically if someone has a better response we go with it.

[CIR-Reed]

I talked to a Ethan at the tirerack for about 30 minutes today and after talking about lots of different tires and sizes and wear ratings and all of that sort of crap we came to a decision.

The best tires for our application are the BFgoodrich G-force T/A KD

The logic on his end was that they are designed to last 8-10k miles on a street car. I told him that I guessed our average speed would be less than 70 mph (I think it will be much lower but looking at worst case) which means we will complete 1680 miles at best. Ethan believes that one set of tires would last the entire race. He also agreed with me that the smart thing to do would be to buy 2 sets and 2 spares just to make sure we are covered. The tires are directional so that will mean 5 lefts and 5 rights. I talked to Rick today and he may order them today because Ethan said that stock on them was very low.

We need to decide on a brake pad compound and rotors. Tirerack has rear brembo rotors for $22 each.

My connection at the junkyard is currently working up a price to buy the entire front suspension and steering rack and everything. I also asked him to price out the 4 brake calipers just to see what they cost.

[JAYKAY]

Excellent decision about the tires. It kinda sucks that they are directional, but I don't think we are going to tear up one side more than the other and they should deliver solid performance. Does TireRack stock the front rotors as well, and if so how much are they? For pads, I was wondering about Raybestos severe duty (they held up for 15,000 miles of hard driving on my old heavy F-body) or EBC Green Stuff. Thoughts?

[Rick]

I ordered 5 rights and 5 lefts. They are on the way from Midway, Georgia.


https://www.tirerack.com/ssl/ssl_images/trans.gif
Item Description Availability Qty. Price Each Item Totalhttps://www.tirerack.com/ssl/ssl_images/trans.gif 225/50ZR15 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD Right
You chose not to provide vehicle information In Stock 5 $148.00 $740.00 225/50ZR15 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD Left
You chose not to provide vehicle information In Stock 5 $148.00 $740.00 Shipping Sub-Total: $128.10 Sales Tax: $0.00 Excise Tax: $0.00 State Waste Tire Fund Fee: $0.00 Order Total: $1,608.10

[CIR-Reed]

Tirerack does not stock the front rotors but they have them on autozone.com for like $75 each which is way more than I expected. We should probably order 4 rears so we can start with 2 brand new ones and then have 2 spares. We should do the same with the fronts.

Brake pads I don't know that much about. Reading a little bit on the ebc website it sounds like the greens are not designed for a racing application. Its weird that even the blue pads that are listed as "endurance" pads in the description only say they are good for 5 hours or something?

Reading this:

http://www.braketechnology.com/racecharacteristics.html

It sounds like we should absolutely go with the Pagid RS 19 pad if they make it for our car. It mentions pads and rotors lasting 24 hours inthe description.

[JAYKAY]

I have been looking for pads and Ferado seems to make some for the car too. Well, makes is a relative term in this business, but Ferado is part of Federal Mogul who acutally makes the pads. AP sells Pagid pads (which are not available for a 17yo Piss-On, who knew? :whistle: ) and Brembo is pretty much the same. I am not sure if EBCs would last, or what other brands would be good here. Phil mentioned Hawk pads when I talked to him, and they seem to have about 5 different compounds available for our car. I have never used them, so does anybody else have any experience with them?

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

I have used Hawk pads in a corvette as well as an SRF. The SRF is 1670 pounds with driver and makes a whoping 105 horsepower. The hawk pads that are spec for that car tend to last about 4 hours of track time.

I have e-mailed both hawk and pagid to see if they will be able to help us. I haven't tried EBC yet but will send them an e-mail tomorrow at some point.

[CIR-Reed]

I picked up a seat today at Northstar. I am going to pick up belts on Tuesday from:

http://www.freshairsystems.com/

They sell Impact stuff and talking to them today it sounds as though impact makes a good cam-lock set of belts. I really don't like belts with a lever release just because something can get caught in it or it can get caught in something (like my belly) and then not release as easily.

I am going to 83 RV today to try and make arrangements for a camper for everybody to stay in. It looks like its going to be 8 or 9 guys total and the camper will be right around $1k so cost per person won't be bad at all for a nice place to stay the whole time.

I will see everybody tonight.

[CIR-Reed]

On the topic of brake pads,

I haven't heard a lot of positive things about EBC pads lately. I know a couple people who use Hawk pads for track days and say that they last a really long time. I don't know about 24 hours long but for a long time.

[Rick]

I am going to 83 RV today to try and make arrangements for a camper for everybody to stay in. It looks like its going to be 8 or 9 guys total and the camper will be right around $1k so cost per person won't be bad at all for a nice place to stay the whole time.

WARNING


I snore louder than anyone I know with the exception of Dave Mickelson.

I would highly suggest bringing earplugs or an Ipod.

[JAYKAY]

Please for the love of God, NO CHILI either...

[Rick]

I'm bringing one of these:

http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/images/evo5000-mask.jpg

[JAYKAY]

I think the Impact belts are quite nice. The Cam-Lock works very smoothly and they look extremely well made. I was going to pick-up a set when I was at their shop in Indy, but I had just bought a fire suit, kart suit, underwear, and some other crap so $1500 was enough for one day.

[CIR-Reed]

I am glad you didn't buy any because I might be able to get them for around 30% off also.

I will have to e-mail martins information to 83 rv next week and make the deposit. I will show you guys the paperwork on what I think we should get, tonight.

[CIR-Reed]

I think I found the perfect fuel system:

Here is the cell:

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/ecfuelcel.html

Then it looks as though you can get a walbro fuel pump for $150ish. I was also looking through the pegasus catalog last night and they make a ton of different fittings. So I suspect we could do a fuel cell for around $400 all said and done. This would allow us to fill much faster and have a good reliable fuel system.

[JAYKAY]

I don't know if we want to go this route, but there is a used Richardson Dry Brake for sale on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NASCAR-RICHARDSON-FEMALE-DRY-BRAKE-CAR-END_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ133200QQihZ007QQite mZ170106891798QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[CIR-Reed]

I was thinking that the rear glass is going to be removed anyway so it shouldn't be hard to just pull the 3"ish cap off of the cell and fill from two 5 gallon containers at a time.

[JAYKAY]

I was thinking that the rear glass is going to be removed anyway so it shouldn't be hard to just pull the 3"ish cap off of the cell and fill from two 5 gallon containers at a time.


That is fine with me, I just thought I would suggest it since that dry brake is pretty cheap. What size cell were you thinking of? I see that they go all the way to 32 gallons.

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

I was kinda thinking we should go with the 15 or the 22. If we go with the 15 we will probably want to run all the way through the tank for each driver stint. If we get the 22 we could plan on doing less than an entire tank of fuel per driver and have a margin of error. We could start the race with it full and then just top it off at each pit stop. Or, if the fuel economy is way better than we thought we could do fuel every other driver change.

Which brings up another arguement. We could get the 32 gallon and it would probably last 4+ hours between fills which would allow us to do the race with much fewer fills. I would also give us some time while doing the longer fills to check over the car. I am not sure what the "fast fill valve" is but we should probably get it if it helps fill faster.

So 32 gallon cell plus d-ring cap plus fast fill valve? I think thats my vote at this point.

[CIR-Reed]

I really don't know what to expect from a fuel economy standpoint. The SRF is a 1.9 liter Ford 4 cylinder. It will do about 55 minutes on 6 gallons of gas. Who knows what this thing will do?

[peterjank]

Sorry for not having been participating much in the discussions to this point. I would lean toward the smaller fuel tank. My guess is that 15 gallons will last 90 minutes and that will be plenty long enough as a driver stint. While it might be nice not to need to fill on every stop, you would end up carrying all that fuel that was not be burned up as extra weight. The extra 7 gallons carried in the 22 versus the 15 would be approximately 40 pounds. A 32 versus a 22 would be another 60 pounds of fuel.

[CIR-Reed]

We need to make a decision on the fuel cell and order all of the parts. I think Peter's logic is good. After I posted I also considered that if were going to carry around 32 gallons of fuel it would weight just shy of about a million pounds (or about 200). Jim do you have any info on the flow rates or the pressure that the stock system runs? I suppose we would need to find a fuel pump that closely matches those characteristics.

Jim, when do you expect the cage to arrive? I will need to make some arrangements with the shop to do the welding. I will also need to go on the hunt for some peices of steel to weld in as frame supports.

[JAYKAY]

The cage should be here by the end of next week. I don't have an exact date yet, but Autopower said they would let me know when it ships.

As for the fuel system, I think that a 16-22 gallon cell would be the best size. 32 gallons is nuts and would weigh twice as much as the stock setup. Would you want to run a D-ring cap or "quick fuel" / dry brake setup? It looks to me that the "quick fill" valves are not that quick and they would have to be connected to a traditional filler line with an opening someplace on the fender. Here is what I can see so far about a cell (assuming we just run a D-ring):

Fuel Cell: $100-$250
Sending Unit: $50 (cheaper cells do not come with a sending unit)
Fuel Pump: $100 from MSD
Fuel Filter: $20 from Edelbrock

The MSD pump will pump up to 43 gallons per hour at 40 psi, which is more than enough for this junker. I will have to see where Nissan put the fuel pressure regulator / return block. If they are up on the engine where they belong, we could be out of the fuel system for about $400. If they are not, it could start getting expensive fast.

Jim

[Rick]

Roll Cage: $1050
Seat + Rails + 5pt Harness: $500
Tires: $1600
Rotors: $160 (?)
Wheels: $100 (?)
Fuel Cell: ???
Fuel: ???
RV Camper: $1000 (?)
Brake Pads: ???

$4410 so far =~ $880/driver

[JAYKAY]

There is also the entry fee which is $500 for the car and $100 per driver, so $200 per driver as of right now.

Jim

[Rick]

So it's about $1000/driver right now.

[JAYKAY]

Brake Rotors (Front): Napa BA0802144 $41.99 each
Brake Pads (Front): Napa SSSS7171X $43.69 pair
Brake Pads (Rear): Napa BA0881245C $38.99 pair
Front Springs: ??? not on website
Rear Springs: Napa NCP2775400 $61.59 pair
Ball Joints: Napa NCP2601459 $43.29 each
Steering Rack (Salvage): ???
Spare Wheels (Salvage): ???

We also still have springs and ball joints to add to the list. The Napa pads above are from Raybestos if we don't find anything else, but I am not sure who makes the rotors.

[CIR-Reed]

Belts are aquired. It ended up that 5 or 6 points are very popular so I couldn't get much of a deal but I got a $255 7 point harness for $200. We can either use it as a 7 point or modify the sub belt thingy to be a 6 point or a 5 point.

[JAYKAY]

Excellent, did you go with Impact or Shroth?

[CIR-Reed]

Impact belts. The Schroth would have been $280. So I saved like $18 per guy (see Rick, I know how to save money) :) .


Jim, I am looking around online for some used wheels. It looks like our car is supposed to be a 4 lug bolt pattern and it is 4 X 4.5 or 114.3mm. I just want to verify that it is the 4 lug before I go crazy. It look like I might be able to find a set of wheels for $80 or something.

[JAYKAY]

Impact belts. The Schroth would have been $280. So I saved like $18 per guy (see Rick, I know how to save money) :) .


Jim, I am looking around online for some used wheels. It looks like our car is supposed to be a 4 lug bolt pattern and it is 4 X 4.5 or 114.3mm. I just want to verify that it is the 4 lug before I go crazy. It look like I might be able to find a set of wheels for $80 or something.

Yep, we have the 4 lug pattern. I cannot find the stud size anyplace or I would have order a set of course-thread NASCAR spec studs to make the tire change A LOT faster. Did you happen across that information anyplace?

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

Yep, we have the 4 lug pattern. I cannot find the stud size anyplace or I would have order a set of course-thread NASCAR spec studs to make the tire change A LOT faster. Did you happen across that information anyplace?

Jim


It looks as though it is 4 X 4.5 or 114.3mm. I have found wheels on a couple websites but they are $400 per set at a minimum. I will call some junk yards today and see what I can find.

[Rick]

Reminder: We still need to find out what is involved with installing a fuel cell.

[JAYKAY]

Reminder: We still need to find out what is involved with installing a fuel cell.


FYI, I just bought that used dry brake. $70 shipped was just too cheap to pass up. If we use it fine, if not I will use it as a planter. I also have some people looking to see about a pair of 11-Gallon Dump Cans that we could either buy or borrow. I will let you know what happens.

[Rick]

Tires have arrived

[Rick]

I talked to Reed today and he had a good suggestion. He suggested that we all try to square up.

Jim $1455 (cage + dry brake + car)
Rick $1250 (tires - $350 for Peter)
Peter $350 (credit against tires)
Reed $788 (harness + seat + seat rails + Ball joints x2 + Front rotors x2 + Rear rotors x2 + caliper rebuild kit front x2 + caliper rebuild kit rear x2)
Martin $1000 (RV?)

If I missed something please post what I missed. There are still things that need to be purchased. Those items should probably be purchased by Peter and Reed.

[CIR-Reed]

I talked to Reed today and he had a good suggestion. He suggested that we all try to square up.

Jim $1455 (cage + dry brake + car)
Rick $1250 (tires - $350 for Peter)
Peter $350 (credit against tires)
Reed $788 (harness + seat + seat rails + brake components)
Martin $1000 (RV?)

If I missed something please post what I missed. There are still things that need to be purchased. Those items should probably be purchased by Peter and Reed.

Ok, so I just ordered:

Ball joints x2
Front rotors x2
Rear rotors x2
caliper rebuild kit front x2
caliper rebuild kit rear x2

For a grand total of $288. So I changed my score in the game above. I will be ordering pads at some point tomorrow. I need to make a couple phone calls to find out what will best suit us. Hawk replied to me with a recommendation and I will call Carbotech.

[Rick]

Score has been adjusted. :)

[CIR-Reed]

Jim $1955 (cage + dry brake + car + Entry)
Rick $1250 (tires - $350 for Peter)
Peter $350 (credit against tires)
Reed $836 (harness + seat + seat rails + brake components + two part foam to make seats for little guys)
Martin $1000 (RV?)


I forgot to add the foam for making seats. I also added the entry fee to Jim's total. We each owe him some money for that and then we each are going to have to pay an additional $100 per driver.

Jim maybe we need to e-mail Peter the part numbers for the cell, sender, pump, and lines so he can order that stuff as soon as possible.

Jim is definitely leading in points at the moment. We all need to put forth some greater effort to catch him!

[JAYKAY]

Well....

I am actually standing on $2375. The cage was $1050 total, the car was $255, the dry-brake was $70, and the entry fee is $1000 ($500 for the car plus $100 for each of the 5 drivers). Either way, I am sure we will shake this out in the end.

The Fuel Pump is from MSD (Jeg's P/N 121-2225) $94.99 online, and the Filter is from Edelbrock (Jeg's P/N 350-8873) $16.99 online. As for the cell, did we want to go with the one that Reed found, or one from Jeg's? We should probably figure that out before we order the pump and filter.

[JAYKAY]

We also need to get at least one electric fan and associated wiring. Jeg's sells them or we could rummage around the boneyard for a couple.

Jim

[Rick]

Jim $2375 (cage + dry brake + car + Entry)
Rick $1250 (tires - $350 for Peter)
Peter $350 (credit against tires)
Reed $836 (harness + seat + seat rails + brake components + two part foam to make seats for little guys)
Martin $1000 (RV?)

Total = $5811

In order to be "square" each driver should have spent about $1162.20 so far.

[CIR-Reed]

Jim $2375 (cage + dry brake + car + Entry)
Rick $1250 (tires - $350 for Peter)
Peter $350 (credit against tires)
Reed $836 (harness + seat + seat rails + brake components + two part foam to make seats for little guys)
Martin $1673.95 (RV)

Total = $5811

In order to be "square" each driver should have spent about $1162.20 so far.

I made the arrangements for the RV today. It was $500 for the refundable deposit. I also just went ahead and paid in full for the rental which was $999 plus the $125 for cleaning and dumping it on return. The total came out to $1673 with sales tax. I adjusted the scoring accordingly.

[CIR-Reed]

Well....

I am actually standing on $2375. The cage was $1050 total, the car was $255, the dry-brake was $70, and the entry fee is $1000 ($500 for the car plus $100 for each of the 5 drivers). Either way, I am sure we will shake this out in the end.

The Fuel Pump is from MSD (Jeg's P/N 121-2225) $94.99 online, and the Filter is from Edelbrock (Jeg's P/N 350-8873) $16.99 online. As for the cell, did we want to go with the one that Reed found, or one from Jeg's? We should probably figure that out before we order the pump and filter.

I like the Jegs 16 gallon drop sump fuel cell (p/n 555-15382). It helps a lot to not have the fuel sloshing all over a flat bottom cell. Does the sending unit do anything other than tell us how much fuel is remaining?

[CIR-Reed]

Yet another update:

Jim $2375 (cage + dry brake + car + Entry)
Rick $1250 (tires - $350 for Peter)
Peter $350 (credit against tires)
Reed $1010 (harness + seat + seat rails + brake components + two part foam to make seats for little guys)
Martin $1673.95 (RV)


After spending about 30 minutes on the phone with a couple different people at tirerack and a guy at hawk performance on a different call I made a decision. I ordered the Hawk HP Plus pads for the front. It doesn't seem that any performance brakes are available for the rear so I ordered whatever pads from autozone said "longest lasting" which should be ok because the rear won't be working all that hard on this car. I also ordered replacement caliper bolts/pins just for a little insurance.

The recommendation from Hawk to keep the pads lasting as long as possible is obviously to keep them as cool as possible. We could buy 2 x 3 inch fans for $30 each and some 3 inch high temp ducting hose and have them blowing on the brake calipers at all times. This would dramatically increase the life of the pads and also help with the wheel bearings and rotor life.

Jim, could you please get all of the part numbers together for the items you would like to order for the fuel system and e-mail them to me. I will arrange to have the fuel system ordered.

I think at this point, other than the fuel system, all of the parts have been ordered and are on their way. Once the cage arrives I will make arrangements to get it welded in and get some frame bracing done. Once that is done we will need to get together for an evening and install everything. Once we do all of that we can discuss any testing that we would like to do.

Anything I am missing here guys?

Other than groceries.

[Rick]

I made the arrangements for the RV today. It was $500 for the refundable deposit. I also just went ahead and paid in full for the rental which was $999 plus the $125 for cleaning and dumping it on return. The total came out to $1673 with sales tax. I adjusted the scoring accordingly.

Who's winning right now? And who's losing? Is it like golf where the lowest score wins? Or is it like basketball where the highest score wins. :confused:

[CIR-Reed]

I am not sure how the scoring works.

I forgot to mention wheels on that list.

I cannot find junkyard wheels at the moment that will fit our car. I have spent a ton of time looking for them.

We could buy a cheap set of brand new wheels and then ebay them with the remaining tires or leftover tires on them at the end of the race.

These are super cheap and they make them in the right size:
http://urbanimport.com/wheels_tires_rota_trackr.htm

These are even cheaper ($80 each) and they make them in the right size:
http://bassettwheel.com/legends_mini.html

I would love to find a junyard set for $100 or something but I haven't found that so far. $320 for a set of wheels that we could probably ebay wouldn't be all bad.

[Martin Lenick]

Don't forget this: :puke:<---- Martin will be doing that


Not likely, but I did pee my britches after reading that post.:rofl:

Bob Zirves can tell you: I only sleep on the bare ground next to my car.
"sleep" may be a euphemism

Out-of-thread comment: Congratulations to Bob for sweeping at Blackhawk last weekend!!!

[peterjank]

Hi guys,

Just send me an e-mail regarding what needs to be ordered and I will do my part. By the way, I now have a wireless modem so we can keep our fans updated in real time during the race.

Peter

[CIR-Reed]

Who's winning right now? And who's losing? Is it like golf where the lowest score wins? Or is it like basketball where the highest score wins. :confused:

The highest score wins Rick! Its time to go big or go home!

[Rick]

The highest score wins Rick! Its time to go big or go home!

I'm second in points so far. :)

[CIR-Reed]

I do believe that you are now third in points rick.

We need to get all of the part numbers for the fuel system and have Peter order that stuff. I think that will all cost around $400. We then need to have Peter order wheels. Once all of that is done we will be in really good shape.

[Rick]

I do believe that you are now third in points rick.

Martin's passing me again! What the hell is going on!? This is exactly the kind of racing I wanted to avoid. Now I have to get a Woltjer wallet? Is there a spec class race I can join instead? :uhoh:

So it looks like we're almost done ordering stuff. Now we just have to get it all installed and pray that it all holds together for 24 hours.

[CIR-Reed]

Look at these results from their california race!

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=585927

83 cars started and 59 of them were running at the end!

[peterjank]

Wheels are on their way to Chicago. Who has the info on the parts for the fuel system?

[Rick]

B6MNHPqACGA

[Rick]

pmrjqANyUrI

[Rick]

ColLoiMHe5g

[Rick]

f_OWXMXFQOc

How the hell did someone buy a miata or a neon for $500?!

[Rick]

Our competition for the upcoming Detroit Race....

LKzlGXKFJ0I

[JAYKAY]

The Supra actually seems to run pretty well, even though it idles rough. So there will be at least one more sports car competing for the nickels. We will know more about how we stack up when we do the test. Did we decide on Autobahn or Rockford the the test? All things considered, I would vote Rockford, but having never run either place, I am unsure of the logistics.

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

Either one works for me.

Rockford we could rent for $75 for 3 hours and each get some driving in.

Autobahn we could go for the whole day and it would be $150 each for Martin, Jim, Rick.

My vote would be Autobahn but we will have to have some self control and not exceed about 70 mph since we won't need to do so in the 24 hour race.

[Rick]

Either one works for me as well.

[vpalmieri]

Reed

If you need "junkyard" parts try calling Lunchbox as he is now selling parts at NorthShore Towing in Evanston.

[CIR-Reed]

I already called him. He is very helpful but the car they have in stock doesn't match ours. Always a pleasure to spend some time on the phone with though!

[Rick]

Was there a decision made on which fuel cell we were going with? I think both Jim and Reed had suggestions. Peter is waiting on part numbers so he can make the purchase.

[JAYKAY]

Was there a decision made on which fuel cell we were going with? I think both Jim and Reed had suggestions. Peter is waiting on part numbers so he can make the purchase.

Alright... I did neither. I just just bought a 22 gallon steel Fuel Safe cell from a Cup car and the fueling / check valves to go with it. The total cost with shipping is right at $500. Also, the cage will be at my place on Friday.

At this point we need a fuel pump, fuel filter, and cooling fans. Once we have those ordered, we should be good to build this $hitbox.

Jim

[peterjank]

On the testing, I think we are better off going to Rockford. The conditions are closer to the track we will be racing on and the cost will be lower for those that are not Autobahn members.

Good work on the fuel cell.

Let me know the part numbers for the rest of the fuel system and I will order them.

[Rick]

We need to start planning a time to get together to get some of the work done. Can everyone please post their availability over the next 2 weeks?

I'm available every day except for this upcoming Saturday (race day at CHMS) unless it rains. I'm also going to be out of town Aug 24-26.

Reed: Can you start setting up an appointment with the welder?

[peterjank]

I will be available 6pm to 10pm 8/21-8/24 and 8/27-8/31. I will also be available all day Saturday 8/25 and the morning of Sunday 8/26. Should be available all three days of Labor Day weekend as well.

[Rick]

I won't be available during Labor Day weekend because I'll be racing in the Rock Island GP.

[JAYKAY]

I have to say, it doesn't look like $1000 worth of metal.

[Martin Lenick]

But does it look like it could be rolled upon and not collapse? Not that I plan on rolling the car, but, you know, just in case!

[Rick]

More importantly, can it withstand 50 lateral Gs during multiple impacts?

[peterjank]

Spare wheels are here as well. We received 6 which is what Reed was promised rather than the 8 they had told me we would receive.

[CIR-Reed]

Ok, now that it is all here I will make a couple phone calls and try and figure out a day for the welding.

Once the welding is complete, we can commence the modificationizing.

[Rick]

Really cheap nomex racing suit.

http://www.saferacer.com/ulshmurasu.html

If anyone (*ahem* Martin *ahem) needs a nomex suit...

[pmpnuss]

When everything is here let me know what kind of lubricants you will need:whistle: For the car of course I can get 10w40 full syn or 20w50 full syn also 80/90 gear oil full syn

[CIR-Reed]

The good news is that Art has the cage in the car and is working on some plates to cover the larger holes in the car.

The bad news is that installing the cage required removal of the dash board. Art is working on brackets to mount the digital dash where it belongs and the ecu apparently attached to the dash so he is making a bracket for that as well.

Art is expecting to be finished with the car tonight. I will probably go pick it up tomorrow morning or afternoon and take it to my dads house for the weekend. I plan on:

1. Rebuilding the brake calipers
2. Installing all of the new brake components
3. Cleaning up the drivers compartment quite a bit to make it a little nicer to drive.
4. Installing the seat
5. Driving it around the neighborhood a little bit to try and figure out what the god awful noises coming from the right rear are.
6. Addressing the isssue with the right rear
7. Delivering the car back to Jim's house sometime next week.

What I really need at the moment is 4 of the tires that we are going to run so I can get the mounted up for the test drive near my dads house. Are they all at Jim's place or do you still have some of them Rick?

[JAYKAY]

Rick still has some, but if you want to stop by my place a get a set, just let me know what time works for you and I will make it work. What type of noise is the car making in the right rear?

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

There is a loudish popping clunking kind of noise. I drove it around Arts industrial complex a little bit. I didn't go crazy on it with the flat tire and being almost out of gas but it seems to pull ok and the gearbox doesn't seem bad at all.

Jim, what are your thoughts on the fuel cell install? We could completely remove the stock tank and weld on some brackets to hang the cell you got in its location. We could also just bolt it on top. Whaddayathink?

[JAYKAY]

Interesting... I suppose it could be a wheel bearing, or some brake related problem, but we can tear into it and find out for sure. I was thinking of putting the cell in the parcel shelf, cargo area so that the dry brake can be mounted when the driver's quarter window is. We should definitely pull the stock tank all the associated crap.

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

It is nice at the moment that we can drive it into and out of the trailer. I think I will leave the fuel cell work until we get it the car back to its home. The other stuff I will work on.

[Rick]

Wow, you guys are really getting a lot of stuff done!

[peterjank]

Hi Reed,

Do you need the spare wheels I bought yet? If so, you could pick them up on the way to or from Jim's. I'm about 5 miles from his place.

Jim,

Have you decided what size cooling fan's I should buy? As soon as I have that info, I will place the order with Jeg's for the fan, fuel pump and fuel filter.

[CIR-Reed]

Update as of today:

My dad is picking the car up from Art's shop today and taking it back to his house. We will do all of the work that we can do on it this week. I plan on taking it back to Jim's house sometime next week and by the time it gets there it shouldn't need much more work. I am starting to think that the best purchase we could make with our remaining money would be cheap shocks since the ones on the car aren't very good.

Rick - Is there any way you could drop 4 of the tires at CIR sometime this weekend? If you can do that I will get them mounted on the car. Actually, it would be great if you could coordinate with Peter and stop by his place to get the wheels and then stop somewhere to get the tires mounted on them and then drop all of that off at CIR. Either way, I would like to put the decent tires on the car. The current ones are good for just about nothing.

Jim - What are your thoughts about weight reduction? I think the rules require all of the glass to be removed with the exception of the windshield. You said you were planning on removing pretty much everything on the door with the exception of the skin. I was thinking that additionally we could remove the whole hatch assembly. It probably weighs 80 pounds or something. This would also keep it in good shape for resale value (what?).

I have aquired radios for us (borrowed). They will be kenwoods. Everyone driving should have a mic put in their helmet and purchase a set of ear peices. The best guy around for this stuff is Larry at:

www.tracksideradios.com (http://www.tracksideradios.com)

Call him and tell him you are racing with the Clueless idiots and you need a helmet kit and ear peices. He sells two grades of helmet kit. I have the more expensive "military grade" one and it is awesome. You also have two options with the cord. You can get a coil cord which is much longer but very annoying when driving a kart or something and it is flopping around. You can also get a shorter straight cord which isn't a problem at all when driving a kart or anything. I have a helmet with each and I much prefer the straight cord at this point. I will supply the PTT and the car harness for the radio so all you need is the helmet components and you should be good to go.

I can't think of anything at the moment that needs to get done that I haven't mentioned already.

[Rick]

Update as of today:
Rick - Is there any way you could drop 4 of the tires at CIR sometime this weekend? If you can do that I will get them mounted on the car. Actually, it would be great if you could coordinate with Peter and stop by his place to get the wheels and then stop somewhere to get the tires mounted on them and then drop all of that off at CIR. Either way, I would like to put the decent tires on the car. The current ones are good for just about nothing.

I'm leaving for Rock Island in 2 hours and won't be back until Monday night. If I survive this weekend, I can do it next week sometime. I'm not sure if everything will fit in my X5 though.

[JAYKAY]

I will be heading out to Rock Island as well, but if you want to drop the car off at the beginning of next week, I will work with Victor to get the tires mounted.

As for gutting it, yes the hatch should come off and after we get the glass out of the doors, I will see about having a friend of mine weld them shut so that we can cut the hell out of them. He may also be helpful when it comes time to mount the fuel cell since we need to make tiedowns. Was Art able to brace the bottom of the car so that we can lift one side at a time?

Jim

edit: Larry just dropped off my helmet with the hi-perf mike, straight cord and semi-custom plugs.

[CIR-Reed]

Glad to hear that you got the helmet taken care of! Larry is very good.

Art did not work with the bottom of the car really. We have a welder at my dads house and we are going to look into that a little further while we are working on it.

I was thinking that when we remove the old fuel cell we could make kind of a "basket" out of sheet metal so that the new cell will drop into the space where the old tank used to be. Then we could bolt it down with a couple brackets on top of it. Are you trying to avoid chopping up the car too much or is it ok with you to get crazy with some of it?

[peterjank]

Hi Reed,

Are your Kenwood radios set up for the IMSA-style connector or the NASCAR-style connector. My helmet is wired for the IMSA-style but I can get an adapter if need be.

Also, what size cooling fans do we need? I'm waiting on that information to order the fans along with the fuel pump.

[JAYKAY]

I was thinking that when we remove the old fuel cell we could make kind of a "basket" out of sheet metal so that the new cell will drop into the space where the old tank used to be. Then we could bolt it down with a couple brackets on top of it. Are you trying to avoid chopping up the car too much or is it ok with you to get crazy with some of it?

Since I paid more for the shirt I am currently wearing than I did for the car, I really don't care about cutting it up. That said, I was thinking of just throwing the cell on the package tray with 2 U-shaped straps to hold it down. That is how FuelSafe recommends mounting them. At the same time, the fuel lines will be long enough there and the dry-brake can mount at the base of the driver's quarter window. It will also give us easy access to the pump and filter if that is necessary and we can run a longer vent line. When the car gets refueled, the vent line up to the flapper stays full of gas. I was going to put the flapper in the rear valance for easy access with the catch can and so that we get an extra gallon of gas in the system.

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

Peter - I believe it is the IMSA style connector.

Jim - I will wait for now on messing around with the fuel cell mounting location.

[peterjank]

After speaking with Jim yesterday regarding the fan size, I placed an order with Jegs today for the fuel pump, fuel filter, and two 10" cooling fans. I used the part numbers Jim sent me in August for fuel pump and fuel filter. The fan I selected is part number 778-67010. It looked like a good value for a 1000 CFM unit.

[pmpnuss]

I can mount and balanvce the tires that is not aproblem just let me know what day anybody can stop by and i can do them or if you want to drop them off.

[peterjank]

I could drop the wheels off tomorrow (September 5) after 6pm. What time works best for you and where do I need to drop them?

[CIR-Reed]

Peter - I picked up 4 tires from Jim's house and got them mounted on the wheels that were on the car today. I think Rick still has 4 of the remaining tires and 2 are at Jim's place.

[CIR-Reed]

The update as of right now:

-The roll cage is completely installed.
-The car is up on jackstands ready to be worked on.
-The first 4 tires are mounted on the wheels that were on the car.
-The original "tires" are disposed of.
-Every nut and bolt on the car is sprayed with penetrating lubricant (lots of jokes while doing).


Tomorrow the contstruction will commence. Joel who works here at CIR will be assisting me and we will be doing a ton of work tomorrow. We will do the whole braking system and flush all the fluid with racing type fluid. We will then go over the whole car checking all bolts for tighteness, brokenness, rusted to oblivionness and replace or tighten as needed. It is going to be quite a job to fit the fuel cell into the car. The size and shape of the particular unit that we aquired is not what any engineer from Datsun was ever thinking would need to be in the car. So if there is time tomorrow after everything else is finished and we do a little test driving I will drop the fuel tank and begin working out how the fuel cell is going to go into the car.

[peterjank]

Hi Reed,

I received an e-mail today from Jeg's indicating that the fuel pump, fuel filter, and cooling fans have shipped. With a little luck they may arrive tomorrow.

Where are you working on the car at the moment. I should be able to swing by tomorrow or over the weekend to help out. I'll bring along the parts if they arrive.

I'll try to get the wheels over to Rick so the tires can be mounted.

[Rick]

Hi Reed,

I received an e-mail today from Jeg's indicating that the fuel pump, fuel filter, and cooling fans have shipped. With a little luck they may arrive tomorrow.

Where are you working on the car at the moment. I should be able to swing by tomorrow or over the weekend to help out. I'll bring along the parts if they arrive.

I'll try to get the wheels over to Rick so the tires can be mounted.

If you drop them off here, I'll coordinate with Victor to get them mounted.

[peterjank]

Great. What's a good time this evening or tomorrow evening? I'll give you a call to get your address.

[Rick]

Great. What's a good time this evening or tomorrow evening? I'll give you a call to get your address.

Well tonight's not good... since we're both going to be at CIR. :)

[CIR-Reed]

Update:

I will be able to work on the car until around 5 o'clock today and so far I have struggled with some of the parts.

I took all of the old brake components off the car and I think 1 of the 4 calipers is locked up badly enough that it can't be fixed.

It took me about 2 hours to repair the brake shoes that the caliper pins go into. I had to do a lot of rust removal and then spent a ton of time getting so the pins would slide nicely in them. I am going to put the whole brake system back together with the exception of the rear calipers. It would probably be wise to replace them as a pair if one of them is bad.

I will begin working on installing the seat and the harness when I am done with the brakes.

I did purchase oil today as well so I will change that today as well probably.

[JAYKAY]

Hey Reed,

Do you plan on working on the junker this weekend? If so, just le me know and I will stop by to help. I was going to take a day off today to go work on the car, but things have gotten too nuts here today.

Jim

[Rick]

Vicki is not going to Michigan anymore, so I'm going up with the RV. :evil_lol: Who's driving that thing anyways?

[CIR-Reed]

Martin is technically supposed to drive the RV since it is rented in his name. I was planning on driving as soon as we were out of sight of the rental place.

I had a couple more setbacks this afternoon and will need to visit the parts store some more. The rear calipers are both junk after examining them further. The fronts are very good actually and the bearings looked really good. Both of the front seals are destroyed and I didn't think they would be so I didn't spend $30 each on them but will have to pick some up when I go to get the calipers tonight.

I work all weekend long but will see what my dad is up to. Maybe a couple of you guys and my dad could get the rest of the work done and do some test driving over the weekend.

[Rick]

Martin is technically supposed to drive the RV since it is rented in his name. I was planning on driving as soon as we were out of sight of the rental place.

Can I leave my car at your place and go with you guys to pick up the RV?

I work all weekend long but will see what my dad is up to. Maybe a couple of you guys and my dad could get the rest of the work done and do some test driving over the weekend.

Tell me when and where and I'll be there.

[peterjank]

I finished the frame for the fuel cell yesterday. I will bring it with me to CIR tonight.

[JAYKAY]

I have ordered the flapper valve and catch can. I also have the Tygon tubing for the vent line, 10 ft of new fuel line and some transparent duct tape for the tail lights.

Reed, can you measure the OD size of the dry brake so I know what size tubing to get for the dry brake to fuel cell connection?

Thanks,

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

I stopped by my dads house this morning before work to examine the cage/seat situation. I did a little finesse work with a 10 pound sledge on the trans tunnel and it is no longer a problem. I also removed a couple pounds of the noise insulation from the trans tunnel. Anything we can do to make the car lighter and louder right? I will cut the cage apart and make some more peices to modify it so that it will work for us. My dad can help tack it together and then Art can finish the welds at some point.

I also played around with the fuel cell setting it in the car both directions. It seems as though if we put it the opposite of how it was sitting when you guys left we can make one 90 bend with the tygon and put the dry break right in the rear passenger side Window hole. This puts almost the entire filling system inside the cage rather than above and behind the cage. In the event of a rollover it would be much safer and probably not even destroy the dry break. There have been cars in this race that rolled and completed the race before. I will hopefully have some time tomorrow and I plan on removing

Jim - I think the tubing is 2.5 inch but I have not verified and will do so tonight.

My guess is that we have:

2 hours of work remaining on suspension and brakes.
4 hours to get the cage just right.
2 hours to get the seat mounted and all of the belts properly mounted.
4 hours to get the fuel cell properly mounted and the lines run.
6 hours to get the gauge cluster and all of the wiring in the "dash" area secured so it doesn't wiggle around during the race and short everything out.

I will do as much as I can this week and next week on all of those projects. I will work on organizing another day for us to get together and do some of the work.

I talked to the guy with the dump cans that I know and his have some sort of weird dry break connection on them so they won't work for us. This creates a sizable problem/expense. Sorry I couldn't come through on this guys. We may have to spend some money to get the right cans.

Jim - Does the guy that you got the fuel cell from have any used dump cans as well?

Martin - When are we going to get your gear? It won't be good if you have to share because that will limit our choices on driving order.

[Rick]

Martin - When are we going to get your gear? It won't be good if you have to share because that will limit our choices on driving order.

I heard they are giving away free bottles of Scotch at Northstar.

[JAYKAY]

I will see about a dump can and probe, but it kind of sucks since I just ordered the other crap from Richardson this morning. I will let you know how punshing it will be. Do you think that we need one 11 gallon can or two?

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

It would probably be in our best interest to have 2. If they are crazy expensive we may want to look into some other option.

[CIR-Reed]

Looking at their website it looks as though the 11 gallon cans are $250 each and then 9 gallon cans are $138 each. The probes are priced at a dizzying $330 each. Do we really want to spend like $1200 on our fuel cans? I think we will all agree that it is the best option but it is insanely expensive.

[peterjank]

Why don't we stick with the single 11 gallon can plus probe? I realize that 11 gallons won't fill the tank but it should be enough fuel to cover our maximum envisioned stint length of two hours. If we start with 15 gallons or so in the tank and refill every two hours we should be fine.

Good work on making the seat fit Reed.

I'm not sure if we will still be able to use my fuel tank frame, but I'll bring it tonight anyway.

As far as working on the car goes, I can make Tuesday (9/11) or Wednesday (9/12) night this week, or Tuesday (9/18), Thursday (9/20) or Friday (9/21) night next week.

I'm leaving for California Thursday (9/13) afternoon and will not return to Chicago until late Monday (9/17) night.

[JAYKAY]

Looking at their website it looks as though the 11 gallon cans are $250 each and then 9 gallon cans are $138 each. The probes are priced at a dizzying $330 each. Do we really want to spend like $1200 on our fuel cans? I think we will all agree that it is the best option but it is insanely expensive.


I was thinking of buying two new 11-gallon cans and two used probes. If the guy still has the probes, I can get them for less than half of the new price. So the total would be about $750.

Jim

[peterjank]

Sounds good to me. I will cover the cost if that is ok with you. I can bring a check to my event next Wednesday to reimburse you.

Peter

[CIR-Reed]

That is fantastic news!

I will be at my dads working on the car Thursday morning from around 9 to around 3 and then on Friday from around 9 to around 3. If anyone is free and would like to join me, I would very much enjoy the company.

[CIR-Reed]

I picked up the nice new brake calipers for the rear today and the front wheel bearing seal.

The car should be a roller by about 9 a.m. tomorrow morning.

The cage modification and seat/harness mounting is a whole different story....

I had an idea this morning that I want to discuss with everybody before doing it. I would like to cut out the T-bar that goes across the top of the car. This would make it much much easier to get in and out of the car. It would also make it possible for the driver who is getting out to step onto the passenger side and help the driver getting in put all of their stuff on. The driver could then exit much more easily after helping the new driver strap in. We are going to have a really nice really fast fueling system. I think the slowest part of the driver change at this point is going to be the driver change itself so anything we can do to improve this time will be a huge gain.

Also, Rick, could you please take on the task of sourcing an either brand new or rebuilt steering rack for this pos? Jim told me the one on the car is weeping some fluid and I took a look at it this morning. It definitely has a leak and this is something that will get worse really fast and should definitely be replaced. It wouldn't hurt to buy a spare alternator and bring it to the track either. If we don't use it you could return it.

[JAYKAY]

Hey Reed,

If you are working on the Junker tomorrow, I will take the day off of work to help out. Just let me know what works for you.

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

I will be at my dads house by 8 to begin working. If you are planning on taking the day off I would be happy for you to join me.

I think the focus of tomorrow will be the roll cage and seat fitment.

We will need to aquire probably about 4 feet of the tubing for the cage. I am working tonight and can't go out and about looking for it.

I called Autopower and they said they were very helpful, the wall thickness is 120 thousandths and the tubing type is "seemless dom." I am not entirely sure what that means.

[JET Karting - Andy Finke]

d.o.m. is "drawn over mandrel"

The pipe is pulled over a 'bullet' of sorts to size it, rather than being rolled and welded. Hence the seamless. These both make it stronger tubing.

I think this is close. Well, close enough for the girls I date, but not without missing details, etc.


Andy

[CIR-Reed]

I read up on the tubing and Andy is correct it is bent over mandrel.

We will have to figure something out tomorrow because to purchase a $20 length of the stuff is right around $400. To purchase a foot of it is $188.

We have a couple of small stubs that came with the cage. We will work out how to use those and make it work.

[JAYKAY]

That is going to be tough. I have no way to transport the tubing, but you may try calling Midwest Hot Rods in Plainfield. They do custom cages, so they may have some sitting around.

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

I think we will be able to use some of the sleeves that Art didn't use. There are also a couple of small stubs that he didn't use because he was welding and not bolting.

[peterjank]

Hi Reed,

Cutting out the T-bar across the top of the cage sounds ok to me. I think you will need to weld some sheet metal in on the passenger side to shore up the floor to use it as described in the pit stops. The holes in the passenger-side floor grew considerably larger as we were working on the car Saturday and we were being careful. In the rush to jump in and out during a race stop, someone is likely to go straight through the floor.

[Martin Lenick]

I read up on the tubing and Andy is correct it is bent over mandrel.

We will have to figure something out tomorrow because to purchase a $20 length of the stuff is right around $400. To purchase a foot of it is $188.

We have a couple of small stubs that came with the cage. We will work out how to use those and make it work.
Do you know anything about the alloy? What's the O.D.? I've got lot's of SA178 2" .120-wall seamless and ERW boiler tube.

[Martin Lenick]

I would like to cut out the T-bar that goes across the top of the car. Doesn't that structure contribute significantly to the overall strength and rigidity of the chassis? Kind of like taking a car that was a coupe and trying to turn it into a convertible?

[peterjank]

Hi Martin,

That bar doesn't contribute all that much to rigidity. The two outside bars at the top of the cage are much more effective in that regard. The T-bar provides some additional support to the bar running across the front of the cage. Its main value would be in providing protection if a large object were to impact the upper half of the windshield - and only if that object was flying straight at the front of the car. I don't think it provides much in the way of roller reinforcement.

[CIR-Reed]

For some reason when I tried to post updates over the last few days it didn't work so here it goes:

The cage now fits around the seat and the drivers head room is increased by a good amount. The brakes are finished and ready to go once they have been bled. I went through the car and attached all the wiring and electrical taped all the ends. The wiring is now almost all solid and not going to shake around and wear itself out or short on anything. I left the wiring in the rear compartment for now so Jim can get the fuel system all wired up.

The fuel cell is installed in the car using Peter's mounting bracket. I also began working on the strapping system for attaching the Cell to the rack and have one strap done. I am planning to have 3 straps when all is said and done.

Jim was in Indianapolis yesterday and was going to visit Impact and pick up some harness mounting brackets. Once those arrive I will do the final seat install and harness install. One night this week I am going to do a super good cleaning job in the driver foot well and then herculiner the footwell. This should make it a slightly nicer and safer environement for us to drive in. I am also going to attempt to make a shift nob. If that doesn't work out we will need to get one. My dad actually suggested leaving it as is which would force people to either be delicate with it or wear a large hole in their hand. I kind of liked that idea but we will have a shift nob.

Rick, did you have any luck finding a steering rack?

A friend of mine works as an infinity/nissan mechanic. I am going to ask him if he can rebuild the steering rack for us and also if he can do the ball joint swap. I can't for the life of me get the ball joints apart (believe me, I pounded on them). I would rather buy a junyard steering rack than rebuild ours but I am still going to inquire.

I have read a couple of the newer articles about the Altamont race and it sounds as though to do well you can be a little bit gentle with your car and not run rocketship fast laps. The trick is to get through the traffic nightmare for the entire 24 hours. I suspect we are going to encounter some very intense pack driving during the race.

Martin, can you borrow a cordless sawzall from work for the weekend? One of the articles mentioned that it was important to be able to bend and cut away bodywork quickly after incidents.

[Rick]

The cage now fits around the seat and the drivers head room is increased by a good amount.

:clap: Great, no more concussions while we drive! That's probably a good thing. Is the seat "adjustable" now? Can it slide along it's rails?

Rick, did you have any luck finding a steering rack?

No not yet. I was slammed at work this week and I'm in LA/Ventura for the weekend. I asked Jim about it and he said I could just buy one from Autozone. That's what I will probably do as soon as I get back to Chicago next week.

A friend of mine works as an infinity/nissan mechanic. I am going to ask him if he can rebuild the steering rack for us and also if he can do the ball joint swap. I can't for the life of me get the ball joints apart (believe me, I pounded on them). I would rather buy a junyard steering rack than rebuild ours but I am still going to inquire.

So do we still need a brand new steering rack? Or are we going to rebuild it?

I have read a couple of the newer articles about the Altamont race and it sounds as though to do well you can be a little bit gentle with your car and not run rocketship fast laps. The trick is to get through the traffic nightmare for the entire 24 hours. I suspect we are going to encounter some very intense pack driving during the race.

After experiencing and surviving Rock Island, I completely agree that avoiding contact is key to having a chance of winning the race. If you don't finish the race, you can't win the race. I would think that the driving will become more and more like NASCAR after the people's curse has been chosen and destroyed. Before that, the driving will probably be less aggressive and violent.

[CIR-Reed]

I just looked up the price on Autozone.com and it is $119 after the core charge which we will get back. That will take up all of our remaining money. Personally, I think that is a good decision at this point.

I will begin removing the old one as soon as I can.

[JAYKAY]

I am back from the weekend trip, and I do have the parts from Impact. I also stopped at a real racing supply place in Brownsburg and got the plumbing parts that I need to hook up the cell (except that damn 2.5in tubing). Reed, what night works for you this week for me to stop by and get that wrapped up?

Jim

[CIR-Reed]

What do you guys think about planning to assemble the whole team on Friday night at my dads place to put the finishing touches on the car, discuss, strategy, fit all of the drivers, make last minute adjustments, and give Rick a swirly.

Jim - If you would like to work on the car prior to Friday let me know and if I can't be there myself I will let my dad know you are coming.

BTW
I suggest that we take Art, my dad, Kent, and Jason out for a nice steak dinner sometime after the race. They have all put a ton of work into this project and asked for nothing in return. We definitely owe them something.

[JAYKAY]

That sounds like a plan. Make sure you do not clean the toilet between now and then. I will be free tomorrow night if you can set it up, I will be there after work to lay a hurtin' on the fuel system and fans.

Jim

[Rick]

....and give Rick a swirly.

That's it! I'm going to tell the organizers that we're cheating unless you guys ensure I post the fastest lap. (kidding... referring to Alonso scandal)

[CIR-Reed]

I have been searching the web for 2.5 inch clear fuel hose. It seems as though the biggest they make is 1.5 inch. What if we got some sort of adapter to go to a smaller hose size? I know it won't flow as well but it will get the fuel in the tank better than just trying to aim the open end of the dry break at the fuel cell and hoping most of the fuel goes in.

[JAYKAY]

I have been searching the web for 2.5 inch clear fuel hose. It seems as though the biggest they make is 1.5 inch. What if we got some sort of adapter to go to a smaller hose size? I know it won't flow as well but it will get the fuel in the tank better than just trying to aim the open end of the dry break at the fuel cell and hoping most of the fuel goes in.

Well, I will just suck it up and order it from Pegasus. It is $35 per ft from them so I was looking for an alternative source. How many feet do you think I should buy to ensure that we have enough?

[Rick]

I called Autozone and asked about the "steering rack". The guy didn't know what I meant by that he said the closest thing is the "rack and pinion". Is that what we need? I need to go down there and pay for it before they will order it. It will take about 3 days to get here.

[CIR-Reed]

Rick - Yes, the rack and pinion is what we need. It would be fantastic if you could manage to have it be Friday.

Jim - I am not sure about the hose. I would probably say 3 feet to be on the safe side. We could try 2 feet but if it is not long enough obviously that is a huge PITA.

[Rick]

What do you guys think about planning to assemble the whole team on Friday night at my dads place to put the finishing touches on the car, discuss, strategy, fit all of the drivers, make last minute adjustments, and give Reed a swirly.

What time? How late can I show up? I might not be able to make it.

Jim - If you would like to work on the car prior to Friday let me know and if I can't be there myself I will let my dad know you are coming.
I think it might work out better for me to do something during the week and show up the same day as Jim.

BTW
I suggest that we take Art, my dad, Kent, and Jason out for a nice steak dinner sometime after the race. They have all put a ton of work into this project and asked for nothing in return. We definitely owe them something.I think that's a good idea.

Rick - Yes, the rack and pinion is what we need. It would be fantastic if you could manage to have it be Friday.I'm really swamped at work these next couple of days and I'm not sure I will be able to get it on time BUT I will try my bestest! Is the "core" already removed from the car? I think it will be harder to get Martin to get a firesuit than for us to get the car race prepped.

[peterjank]

I will plan on being there Friday as well. I can be there by 6:15.

I also think it would be great take the "crew" out for a thank you dinner sometime after the race.

[Rick]

I went to Autozone and ordered the part. The ETA is 2 days minimum. Can I have the "core" by then?

[peterjank]

Reed,

Will you have the radios at the garage Friday? I would like to check their compatibility with my helmet. I have a 4-prong/IMSA style connector installed in my helmet. I also have an adapter that will allow me to connect my helmet to a 3-prong/NASCAR style radio.

[JAYKAY]

If the timing works out, I will run to work on the car tonight. That way I can at least have the majority of the fuel and fan stuff done before we jump on the car Friday. I would like to spend that time finishing off the rack and getting it running with the new parts and checking for problems.

Jim