View Full Version : TAG Shifter
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MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-25-2007, 02:39 PM
Rick....did you order yours yet?
Rick....did you order yours yet?
No. They look really cool but there's no one to race with in shifter at Norway. :frown: Plus there's a ton of room for me to improve in TAG. And the competition is really good in TAG from what I've seen this year at CHMS and Rock Island. I think TAG was even more competitive than shifter at RIGP. I also need to save my pennies for next year's racing. I want to do SuperNats next year.
MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-25-2007, 04:23 PM
No. They look really cool but there's no one to race with in shifter at Norway. :frown: Plus there's a ton of room for me to improve in TAG. And the competition is really good in TAG from what I've seen this year at CHMS and Rock Island. I think TAG was even more competitive than shifter at RIGP. I also need to save my pennies for next year's racing. I want to do SuperNats next year.
All true except for the RIGP comment. I still think the two top shifter classes at RIGP are the most competitive. It's a pity you came on the scene late and missed all the SKUSA shifter kart action in the early 2000's. There were some pretty exciting races at Norway especially when the Pro Moto tour came to town.
I'm saving my pennies to do the SuperNats next year also. I hear that's like RIGP on steriods.
The price looks low relative to other shifters. The price seems even with single speed TAG. How high is the maintenance on that motor relative to Stock Moto?
All true except for the RIGP comment. I still think the two top shifter classes at RIGP are the most competitive.
Well I'm basing my opinion on the fact that Kyle Weigand and Alan Rudolph (both of whom are among the best drivers I know of) didn't do as well in the TAG Senior field as they did in shifter. I might be wrong, but TAG is closer to a spec class than ICC or Moto. That coupled with the fact that there were more entries in TAG than shifter classes probably means that there could be more talented drivers to compete against. Another good example is how TAG and HPV are at Norway. HPV seems to be much more competitive (maybe due to sheer numbers or just amount of experience) at CHMS.
rct25
10-25-2007, 09:11 PM
Rick,
For the first time in the history of this forum:
I AGREE WITH YOU :evil_lol:
TaG Senior at Rock Island was the MOST competitive class.
Roberto
Rick,
For the first time in the history of this forum:
I AGREE WITH YOU :evil_lol:
TaG Senior at Rock Island was the MOST competitive class.
Roberto
Finally! How does it feel to be right? :takecover:
You forgot about one other thing that we agree on: Racing is one of the best and most addictive sports ever!
rct25
10-25-2007, 10:08 PM
You forgot about one other thing that we agree on: Racing is one of the best and most addictive sports ever!
:cheers:
Roberto
MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-25-2007, 11:35 PM
The price looks low relative to other shifters. The price seems even with single speed TAG. How high is the maintenance on that motor relative to Stock Moto?
Well I'm basing my opinion on the fact that Kyle Weigand and Alan Rudolph (both of whom are among the best drivers I know of) didn't do as well in the TAG Senior field as they did in shifter. I might be wrong, but TAG is closer to a spec class than ICC or Moto. That coupled with the fact that there were more entries in TAG than shifter classes probably means that there could be more talented drivers to compete against. Another good example is how TAG and HPV are at Norway. HPV seems to be much more competitive (maybe due to sheer numbers or just amount of experience) at CHMS.
Rick
I don't have any personal experience with the TAG ICC but am expecting the maintenance to be very similar to the stock moto. I believe this TAG shifter motor is going to revive the shifter class....box stock, electric start and promises at least a full season with no rebuilds and minimal power loss if any.
As far as the TAG class goes, your observation of where Kyle Weigand and Alan Rudolph finished should tell you how UN-equal the motor packages are. If that wasn't enough, playing the guessing game of which tire would suit the course best was another nightmare. Jordan Musser was running around Friday night trying to figure out which tire to use because the year before he got screwed by choosing the wrong tire. I would be surprised if he ran TAG again next year especially if they add in the Rotax class. I spoke with Alan afer the race and he said the Leopard was no match for the Rok TT this year. He was getting pulled big time on the straights. He is one of the best at getting around that course and he didn't even finish in the top 5.
TAG classes are growing like wild fire because every kart shop in America sells their own version of a TAG kart and that is also the reason why there are so many different motor packages in the class. I believe the Winter tour just approved 2 more packages. If you're looking for a class where finding a competitive advantage is the norm, TAG's for you. If you are looking for a class that has a level playing field and driver skill makes the difference, Rotax or stock shifter is the way to go.
Martin Lenick
10-26-2007, 07:19 PM
...because the year before he got screwed by choosing the wrong tire....You make him sound like a victim. Did he get screwed, or did HE make the wrong choice?:confused:
MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-26-2007, 09:00 PM
You make him sound like a victim. Did he get screwed, or did HE make the wrong choice?:confused:
I guess it all depends on how you look at it. TAG USA allowed a tire, the Vega Blue, that most drivers were not familiar with, Jordan Musser being one. The tire had a durometer reading that was way lower than the other spec tires for the series, in this case, the B'stone YHC. Musser, on YHC's, was beaten by lesser drivers on the Vega Blues because of the performance advantage of the tire. TAG USA has since then pulled the Vega Blues.
Martin Lenick
10-26-2007, 09:14 PM
Too bad the accomplished Mr. Musser didn't do his homework. Too bad you didn't inform him. (Maybe you screwed him.) Or do I still have this wrong - he was "screwed" by some secret cabal that prevented him from gaining knowledge of this top-secret tire? Or, maybe he just made the wrong choice and wasn't screwed at all.
http://www.foureyesjokeshop.com/ProductImages/Shit%20Hits%20The%20Fan%20Halloween%20Costume.jpg
Martin Lenick
10-26-2007, 09:36 PM
You've had too long to respond.
MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-26-2007, 09:43 PM
Too bad the accomplished Mr. Musser didn't do his homework. Too bad you didn't inform him. (Maybe you screwed him.) Or do I still have this wrong - he was "screwed" by some secret cabal that prevented him from gaining knowledge of this top-secret tire? Or, maybe he just made the wrong choice and wasn't screwed at all.
If you go back and read my original post, I said he got screwed by 'choosing' the wrong tire. So there you go, he screwed himself. Fact still remains he was screwed.
Mark Hirt
10-27-2007, 09:17 PM
The tire had a durometer reading that was way lower than the other spec tires for the series
I don't know how it works with Kart tires but the "race" tire engineers I know tell me that the durometer reading is meaningless. But what do they know.
I don't know how it works with Kart tires but the "race" tire engineers I know tell me that the durometer reading is meaningless. But what do they know.
Isn't asphalt a really good durometer? :takecover:
MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-27-2007, 11:14 PM
I don't know how it works with Kart tires but the "race" tire engineers I know tell me that the durometer reading is meaningless. But what do they know.
I thought you were a kart guy, sorry, bro...let me put it in terms you can understand. The Vega blues are MUCH softer and has a lot more grip than the other spec tires for the class. That translated into quicker lap times. At the Rock that year, drivers using the Vega blues had a huge advantage.
Word is, I believe TAG is a joke now. It started off with a great concept under Tom Argy but since he passed away, it's just gone downhill.
Word is, I believe TAG is a joke now. It started off with a great concept under Tom Argy but since he passed away, it's just gone downhill.
From my experience, TAG has been pretty successful at building relatively large and competitive classes. I see a TAG class at every track I've been to. For the most part, it's been fair and offered relatively even competition. What don't you like about it? The only thing that I think they could do better is to actually offer a real national and world championship series.
Martin Lenick
10-29-2007, 07:12 PM
...So there you go, he screwed himself...If I could do that I'd never leave the house.:)
Martin Lenick
10-29-2007, 07:14 PM
....Word is, I believe TAG is a joke now. It started off with a great concept under Tom Argy but since he passed away, it's just gone downhill.What do you recommend? DD2? :rofl::rofl:
Mark Hirt
10-29-2007, 10:32 PM
I thought you were a kart guy, sorry, bro...let me put it in terms you can understand. The Vega blues are MUCH softer and has a lot more grip than the other spec tires for the class.
No I only race karts at an indoor track and have NO tire choice. On my car I choose to run tires made in Indiana, designed by someone that actually knows lot more about rubber compounding then you ever will.
Low durometer does not always equal more grip (aka softer). Do you check yours at operating temperature? If not the reading is pretty much useless, a well designed tire can look very hard at ambient temperature yet once heated be very soft.
Everytime I go to CHMS I see people heating their tires with a torch to clean off the OPR (OPR = other peoples rubber). This practice makes me cringe, don't they know they are destroying their tires. Localized heating IS about THE WORST thing you can do to the complex rubber componds in a tire.
MPIGP - Phillip Gordon
10-29-2007, 11:44 PM
What do you recommend? DD2? :rofl::rofl:
I'm glad to see you still have your sense of humor even after your nasty wreck in TAG and knowing that if you were racing in the DD2 class you might not have gotten hurt....but, to each his own.
Let's see, 1st gear for more grunt off the slow turns, 2nd gear for more top speed on the straights, 4 wheel brakes for stopping power that'll give you nose bleed...and if the performance difference wasn't enough, there's the 2 to 3 seasons between rebuilds, no chain no mess and a gear set that covers most every sprint track....I'd say the choice is clear to me but then again, I don't have the after effects of track 4 clouding my brain.
Martin Lenick
10-30-2007, 07:36 PM
Your probably right. It's hard to get in a wreck when you're the only one on the track.:takecover:
Adam Andrea
10-30-2007, 10:20 PM
Your probably right. It's hard to get in a wreck when you're the only one on the track.:takecover:
Martin, I noticed the Bob Hope quote in your signature. I've got another one for you. When he was on his deathbed, his wife asked him where he wanted to be buried. He said, "Surprise me."
JAYKAY
10-31-2007, 12:25 PM
Martin, I noticed the Bob Hope quote in your signature. I've got another one for you. When he was on his deathbed, his wife asked him where he wanted to be buried. He said, "Surprise me."
That is a pretty good one. It is up there with Oscar Wilde's last words "Either those curtains go, or I do!"
Jim
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