New Indoor Kart Track in Chicagoland

[D. Harrington]

Originally Posted by Phillip Gordon

The reason I stopped racing at CIR has nothing to do with the fact I think the racing there is just one step up from a kart simulator. However, to answer your question, I haven't driven a 9hp indoor kart before so I plan to try them out. There is also talk about starting a 200 lap endurance race league which I may sign up for because they plan to run the format that allows the karts to be rotated through all the teams. This way one team can't get 'lucky' and be assigned a bullet nor will a team get stuck with a dog kart for the entire race. I can handle being beat by a better driver but losing due to crappy equipment especially at the prices CIR charges just makes for a bad experience for me.

Phil,

I have to disagree with your comments above.

"just a step above a kart simulator" ?? CIR is one of the top indoor karting centers in the United States. I am sure that the Melrose Park facility will take karting to the "next level" for all of it's participants.
As far as the karts at CIR.... I feel that Bob Zirves and his team do an awesome job of maintaining the karts. I have spent a considerable amount of time observing and racing at CIR. The fastest drivers at CIR can jump in almost any kart and post lap times within a tenth of a second or less of each other. Your comment about rotating karts at Melrose Park and why the justification for doing it seems to make it sound like there are some significant differences between their karts there. I hear that they only have 20 karts?? Good luck finding 10-15 "equal" karts out of the inventory that isn't in the mechanics bay.
The pricing at CIR is more than fair. No form of racing is cheap...but, when you can show up, jump in a kart, and race without having to worry about anything....CIR is a bargain compared to racing outdoors.
I wish the Melrose Park facility the best of luck. They face a number of large challenges....poor location, no parking, no corporate revenue stream, indoor air quality(what is their plan for ventilation?), licensing, permits, etc.....

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Originally Posted by D. Harrington

Phil,

I have to disagree with your comments above.

"just a step above a kart simulator" ?? CIR is one of the top indoor karting centers in the United States. I am sure that the Melrose Park facility will take karting to the "next level" for all of it's participants.
As far as the karts at CIR.... I feel that Bob Zirves and his team do an awesome job of maintaining the karts. I have spent a considerable amount of time observing and racing at CIR. The fastest drivers at CIR can jump in almost any kart and post lap times within a tenth of a second or less of each other. Your comment about rotating karts at Melrose Park and why the justification for doing it seems to make it sound like there are some significant differences between their karts there. I hear that they only have 20 karts?? Good luck finding 10-15 "equal" karts out of the inventory that isn't in the mechanics bay.
The pricing at CIR is more than fair. No form of racing is cheap...but, when you can show up, jump in a kart, and race without having to worry about anything....CIR is a bargain compared to racing outdoors.
I wish the Melrose Park facility the best of luck. They face a number of large challenges....poor location, no parking, no corporate revenue stream, indoor air quality(what is their plan for ventilation?), licensing, permits, etc.....

Dave

I believe you missed my point. My comment 'one step up from a kart simulator' was not meant as a derogatory statement aimed at CIR. I agree with you that they are one of the finest facilities in the country. What I was trying to say, there is very little risk involved with concession karts so passing moves that are attempted in concession karts may not be attempted in real open wheel race karts. When you remove the pucker factor, everyone becomes a Lewis Hamilton (or Alonso in your case)

I am not sure where MPIGP will take karting but I will say the track and karts look to be a lot more fun that those at CIR. The customers that are more interested in the racing aspect rather than the bar and lounge may end up racing at MPIGP. Just my opinion.

Lack of maintenance is not always the reason for unequal performance so I was not taking a shot at Bob and his crew. However, from my personal observations, I've seen more than one case where known good drivers were not competitive in one kart and after a replacement kart was issued, that same driver was up to 1 sec faster with the new kart. In indoor karting lap times that's a huge difference. At the last endurance race I attended, an ex employee was setting some blistering laps before his kart broke. The best times he could do in the replacement kart was 4/10's slower which was right where a lot of the regulars were running. I've been around indoor karting long enough to know there will always be bullets and dogs no matter how much maintenance is done.

I believe they have more than 20 karts and they're also ordering 25 more. They should have a good selection to choose from. Also with lap timers mounted on the steering wheel, a driver can get instant feedback and make adjustments to find the quickest way around the track.

Let's see, you pay $25 each for the first two 5 min sessions, then $10 for each 5 min after. That's $150 for the first hour and $120/hr after that. So for 3 hours of track time at CIR it'll cost you $390. At almost all outdoor tracks I spend $25 for a practice pass, fuel and tires cost me $230 and I get to practice from 10am til dark. Not to mention driving a DD2 or shifter compared to the CIR karts is like comparing driving a Porsche GTR to a Nissan Sentra. Maybe CIR's pricing is a bargain in your books but not mine.

You may be right about some of the challenges of MPIGP. The location is definitely not as pristine as CIR but from what I saw, they have plenty of parking. They don't have any revenue stream, corporate or private sector as they are not even open yet One major difference is the temp in the track area. Last Thursday when it was 5 degs outside, I was standing on the track in my t-shirt and felt warm. Like I said, it is no CIR but the owner is a racer and he's all about having a good time with a bunch of guys passionate about racing.

[Mark Hirt]

Originally Posted by Phillip Gordon

...snip...because they plan to run the format that allows the karts to be rotated through all the teams. This way one team can't get 'lucky' and be assigned a bullet nor will a team get stuck with a dog kart for the entire race.

Unless they only have 6 karts how will that work

the number 6 is based on CIR's 5 driver change rule

wow #2 is really fast, we pit when it's the next kart in line.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Originally Posted by Mark Hirt

Unless they only have 6 karts how will that work

the number 6 is based on CIR's 5 driver change rule

wow #2 is really fast, we pit when it's the next kart in line.

Mark

All the teams will not necessarily drive every kart but all the teams will have to give up the kart they started in. The way it is done, before a team pits, their next driver will already be seated in a spare kart in the pits ready to go. Therefore it is impossible for the same team to switch drivers and stay with the same kart. I've watched endurance races where the drivers are racing the clock to get in and out and one of them end up on the floor. Luckily no one has gotten seriously hurt. The benefit of the kart rotation is a safer transition of drivers getting in and out of a kart because there is no hurry. Another benefit is, the driver on track doesn't have to stop for refueling. If you ever lost time during refueling because the pit guy couldn't get your gas tank cap off and it cost you a position or maybe the win, you'll appreciate this format.

As to your comment, yes the faster karts are immediately recognized by the regulars so timing the pit stops to get the 'right' kart becomes part of the pit strategy. Once you get in line for a driver change you cannot get out of line or allow someone behind you to go ahead. It gets real interesting for the last round of pit stops. No one wants to get in line until they see the teams with the faster karts getting ready to pit. It just adds a little twist that adds to the fun. Doesn't make it right or wrong but most racers love it.

[Rick]

Phil: What type of surface do they have? What kind of engines and chassis do they have? What are the prices?

[j oyen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Phil: What type of surface do they have? What kind of engines and chassis do they have? What are the prices?

What are the barriers made of and how hard are they!

[Martin Lenick]

My budget for outdoor karting is about $5,000 / year. That's pretty small compared to many. If you buy Enduro Packages at CIR that would buy you 500 races. If you figure in the cost of a kart, you could do about 700 more.

There are many "real" racers at CIR - from Spec Racer Ford'ers to Autocross'ers to Formula Atlantic and CHAMP car drivers, as well as many top-level outdoor karters. I doubt the level of competition will be higher anywhere else. Besides, none of them will try to sell me anything.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Originally Posted by Rick

Phil: What type of surface do they have? What kind of engines and chassis do they have? What are the prices?

Rick

The floor is concrete. They are Rimo chassis with 9hp Hondas converted to propane. They plan to install converters to reduce emissons even more. Prcies are lower (about 15 to 20%) than CIR.

[MPIGP - Phillip Gordon]

Originally Posted by j oyen

What are the barriers made of and how hard are they!

They're using the same type of barriers as CIR. Seems like all the new karting facilities are using this.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Phillip Gordon

Rick

The floor is concrete. They are Rimo chassis with 9hp Hondas converted to propane. They plan to install converters to reduce emissons even more. Prcies are lower (about 15 to 20%) than CIR.

So $8.50 - $8.00 per 10 minutes? It costs me $10 per 10 minutes at CIR because I have an enduro package. Do they have something similar?